Magnum50

Actually Switchcraft, what your describing is the new civilian model tazer, (and us cops ain't to happy about it)... instead of "shocking" for a 5 second per pull like the police models, this one is meant for protection... you shoot it at a bad guy (hopefully) and it shocks for 30 seconds... 30 seconds so you can have enough time to set it down and run away.

But if a bad guy gets one, uses it on a cop, he has 30 seconds to flee (hopefully) or get the cops gun and kill him.

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Switchcraft

But you could say the same thing about my handgun. I'm glad the Taser is available.

leejo

Why is it that you see cops shoot a zillion rounds at someone but not hit but the taser is always a hit? Someone help me understand how the taser manages to hit its mark so often.

As a side note, it would be fun to see two people get into a taser fight (in the next Will Ferrell movie or something)

Switchcraft

Because it has a laser sight. Duh.

leejo

oh!

Gosh I hope criminals don't start travelling in pairs once these tasers hit the market. And that they don't start buying these things. I'm actually a little more worried about these on the streets than guns.

CingularDuality

Something the bad guys need to remember, is that just because a cop using a Taser is not deadly force, that doesn't mean that a bad guy using a Taser on a cop is not deadly force. On the street, it's safe to assume that an incapacitated cop is a dead cop. So, a bad guy with a Taser will find a police officer drawing his gun and either shooting or staying out of range of the Taser.

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Buck Fush

One guy shoots three teammates?? Did root move to the states?

Buck Fush

I do think these cops need better training on handling aggressive dogs. I don't want to sound overly critical, but it does seem to me that the preferred method of grabbing the aggressive dog by the hind legs and spinning him to keep him from turning around on you would have been a better approach than shooting in the general direction of your colleague. Shoot the dog once he's clear of your partner, but I believe it would be impossible to identify your target and what lies beyond it when your target happens to be attached to something you don't want to shoot.

leejo

I dunno about reaching into that furball and hoping to grab a leg instead of a mouth, but I do think that anyone who shoots three teammates has done *something* wrong.

SmokingTarpan

Grabbing an enraged animal by the hind legs and trying to "spin" is pretty much a not smart thing to do, to put it nicely. Aside from the fact that grabbing an animal that's lunging at you by the back legs is nigh impossible, even if you do manage I can almost guarantee you that you'll get bit, and probably quite badly. Dogs have an uncanny ability to fold themselves in half one way or another at lightning speed when they need to, and I speak from personal experience. Thank goodness for tough jeans.

I'm not saying that wildly firing like you're in a western movie is better, but I can tell you what's not going to work. By the way, did it ever say exactly how the officers were hurt? Was it actual straight-up getting shot, or was it a ricochet thing?

As far as training cops to deal with animals, that's why we have animal control. They're actually trained and have better tools to deal with aggressive animals. Sometimes you can't wait for them to arrive, though.

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CingularDuality

I'm with Tarpan on this. Sure, it would be nice if cops had more training on handling aggressive dogs, and mentally disturbed people, and suicide prevention, and emergency medical response, and non-lethal hand to hand techniques and, well, I could go on and on. Reality dictates only a certain amount of training, though. And, in most cases, there are already specialists available.

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Buck Fush

The idea of "wheelbarrowing" an attacking dog is not mine. I used to work as an all-around "do it" boy for the Harrisburg Kennel Club. One of my jobs was security for the huge dog shows they held. We had to go through training classes to learn how to handle escaped dogs, break up dog fights, etc. Now it was presented as the proper technique to break up two fighting dogs or an aggressive dog attacking a smaller one, but I'm sure it would be equally effective on a dog attacking a human.

Although it would be impossible to use this tactic on a dog attacking you, it would not be possible for 1 of the other 3 officers that were not being attacked to attempt. The downside is that if you aren't quick enough, you could be bit. The upside is that you are not discharging a weapon in the general direction of your partner. Of course, for all we know, they tried and failed and had to resort to the riskiest option.

Pickle

Because I was not there, have not seen an AAR, don't know what the terrain was like (was it in tight quarters), don't know who was standing where I am not going to pass judgement on the cops actions. I will say, at least they attempted to do something.

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SmokingTarpan

Not that I'm trying to belittle the training that you received, but that technique is a pretty good way to get yourself bit, especially in a "wild" animal situation. Show dogs are generally better tempered and trained, so it may work under those conditions (though I still have my doubts). Regardless, have you ever had to use the technique first-hand? If so, how did it all work out?

In my 3+ years as a vet assistant I worked on a daily basis with mostly untrained, somewhat ill-tempered animals that were dumped into unfamiliar, uncomfortable, fearful situations. And this is before they ever got stuck with needles or tossed into the X-ray room. If I were to ever try this "wheelbarrowing" technique, I would have ended up in the hospital. There are very few places you can grab a dog and have safety from being bit, and the legs are one of the least safe. From my experience, agitated dogs react near instantly to their legs being touched, and if you don't have control of them in some other way first, you'll likely take a hit. I've broken up a good amount of dog-on-dog fights, and the leg is the last thing I'd go for (so long as there wasn't great concern for the dogs' conditions, my hands wouldn't even enter the equation). In any case, I'm not saying any of this to be argumentative, but rather to put my years of first-hand information out there for knowledge purposes.

With the whole dog attacking cop situation, ignoring the fact that wildly discharging your weapon could hurt someone, the technique of officer B grabbing legs while dog attacks officer A seems to guarantee that at least officer A gets hurt, if not B as well. Better for A to shoot the dog and B to get the hell out of the way. I still don't understand exactly how the three guys got shot in this above story.

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xTYBALTx

Maybe they were reaching for their wallets?



Kidding!

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