House of Saud - Page 2

AMosely · 07-24-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

We are not at an "us-or-them" stage of conflict, mainly because "them" consists of several wildly divergent groups with varying interests.

I agree with this assessment, and have said so multiple times. But I am starting to see some connecting pieces show up time and time again, narrowing the variance to two distinct sources:

- Saudis against westernization. The topic of my post here - America's promise to ensure Saudi royal security in exchange for oil deals and strategic assistance has spawned numerous problems, mostly for America. Al Qaeda's hatred of America and the west is almost entirely born out of this history, for they now do not blame corruptees (Saudi royals) as much as the corruptors (the west).

- The destruction of Israel. This demand is continuously preached by Palestinian terrorists (Hamas), Iranian terrorists (Hezbollah), the current Iranian prime minister, and Al Qaeda (though it is not their first priority).

Has it occured to anyone that Iran kicked Hezbollah into high gear because Iran wanted to escape the world's attention? These conflicts are all linked - perhaps not linearly, but there are clear and overlapping connections to be drawn here. Neither one of these driving forces listed above can be 'solved' or appeased in some way. So, what is the solution? Co-existence? I have not seen anyone, on either side, make such a suggestion.

**leejo** · 07-24-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

Has it occured to anyone that Iran kicked Hezbollah into high gear because Iran wanted to escape the world's attention? These conflicts are all linked - perhaps not linearly, but there are clear and overlapping connections to be drawn here. Neither one of these driving forces listed above can be 'solved' or appeased in some way.

Yes, immediately. YES!!!. And, RIGHT!!!

xTYBALTx · 07-24-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

And I don't think we've made the decision that the enemy is intractible and that our mutual existence isn't possible. I think they've made that decision.

So yes, you've decided that our enemy is intractible and that our mutual existence isn't possible. That's precisely what Steeler was saying.

Whether the arms race contributed to victory in the cold war is entirely irrelevant to the analogy. The cold war did not end with missile exchanges, and that's the point. Many people thought only massive confrontation would end the cold war, and those people were wrong. Many people think only massive confrontation will end this war - and I say that they, too, are wrong.

**leejo** · 07-24-2006, 06:33 PM

No, I haven't decided that. Don't put words in my mouth.

xTYBALTx · 07-24-2006, 07:24 PM

In saying that your enemies have decided that they are intractable, you are saying that you consider your enemies intractable. Do you disagree?

**leejo** · 07-24-2006, 08:06 PM

xTYBALTx · 07-24-2006, 11:20 PM

Okey doke.

AMosely · 07-25-2006, 01:48 PM

I neglected to add to this dicussion (and I think no one else has) the aspect of Sunni and Shiite muslim sects. This is also a clear line of deliniation when it comes to attitudes about the West, and to some degree Israel as well. Just look at how the current leadership ties line up:

Sunni: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia
Shiite: Iran, Syria, Hezbollah controlled Lebanon

Iraq is still a wildcard, but you can guess who the west is pulling for (not to mention the other Sunni leaders)

Mateo · 07-25-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

Has it occured to anyone that Iran kicked Hezbollah into high gear because Iran wanted to escape the world's attention? These conflicts are all linked - perhaps not linearly, but there are clear and overlapping connections to be drawn here. Neither one of these driving forces listed above can be 'solved' or appeased in some way. So, what is the solution? Co-existence? I have not seen anyone, on either side, make such a suggestion.

That's an astute observation.

**CingularDuality** · 07-25-2006, 02:28 PM

I just wanted to point out, since some here have indicated otherwise, that Iran is not an Arab nation.

Other than that, this is a good discussion. I think that Agent Mosely is on the right track here.

**P8riot** · 07-25-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

Looking at the rather tumultuous history of the region in general and knowing that tribal warfare has existed for centuries...

exchange 'for centuries' with 'since biblical times.'

The 12 tribes have been at this for a looooong time and I do not believe that diplomancy, war, famine, plague, disaster, annihilation will change the character of the region.

/quickly retreats to bombproof shelter

AMosely · 07-28-2006, 05:41 PM

$2.9 billion in tanks to Saudi Arabia...

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...SA.xml&src=rss

07-24-2006, 06:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: House of Saud No, I haven't decided that. Don't put words in my mouth.

07-24-2006, 07:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: House of Saud In saying that your enemies have decided that they are intractable, you are saying that you consider your enemies intractable. Do you disagree? __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

07-24-2006, 08:06 PM	#21 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: House of Saud Yep.

07-24-2006, 11:20 PM	#22 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: House of Saud Okey doke. __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

07-25-2006, 01:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 34 Posts: 2,793	Re: House of Saud I neglected to add to this dicussion (and I think no one else has) the aspect of Sunni and Shiite muslim sects. This is also a clear line of deliniation when it comes to attitudes about the West, and to some degree Israel as well. Just look at how the current leadership ties line up: Sunni: Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia Shiite: Iran, Syria, Hezbollah controlled Lebanon Iraq is still a wildcard, but you can guess who the west is pulling for (not to mention the other Sunni leaders)

07-25-2006, 02:28 PM	#25 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,137	Re: House of Saud I just wanted to point out, since some here have indicated otherwise, that Iran is not an Arab nation. Other than that, this is a good discussion. I think that Agent Mosely is on the right track here. __________________ Become a supporting member! Buy a Tactical Duck! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

07-28-2006, 05:41 PM	#27 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 34 Posts: 2,793	Re: House of Saud $2.9 billion in tanks to Saudi Arabia... http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...SA.xml&src=rss

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