Have You Hugged a Hummer Today?

xTYBALTx · 07-25-2006, 12:43 PM

Link to article

**leejo** · 07-25-2006, 12:57 PM

As a matter of fact I...oh...uh...nevermind.

**Trooper** · 07-25-2006, 01:00 PM

I think where i live, i might get shot because some on might think im stealing it.....but i will give it a try

**RandomGuy** · 07-25-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by article

As for Hummers, Spinella explains, the life of these cars averaged across various models is over 300,000 miles. By contrast, Prius' life – according to Toyota's own numbers – is 100,000 miles

That sounds rather fishy.

The aticle makes a good point that the energy needed to manufacture a car is significant even when compared to the energy used to fuel the car throughout its operational life. If it really takes more energy to manufacture a hummer than a prius that is pretty messed up. You've got to think that is going to change in the future if production gets ramped up.

RocketPunch · 07-25-2006, 01:32 PM

I think they are talking about the Hummer Alpha (H2 and H3 is NOT a Hummer), which is already out of production (at least for the public). I always have my doubts with Hybrid cars, especially when the current EPA standard (which is developed in the 70's) is widely known as inaccurate and does not reflect "todays actual driving condition", to begin with. My ride had an EPA rating of 22 city/30 Highway, but the actual I got was really around 18city/24highway.

To me the EPA rating sticker on cars are nothing more than ads for manufacturers and environmental propaganda created by EPA.

If you really care about the environment, use public transportation. If you want freedom, get a scooter/motorcycle.

AMosely · 07-25-2006, 01:44 PM

Someone gave me a T-shirt with a picture of a hummer on it and the word "BUMMER" printed in the hummer font.

**TG_Bubba** · 07-25-2006, 01:47 PM

Reading the title of this thread...... ah got to get my mind out of the gutter.

TheFatKidDeath · 07-25-2006, 02:12 PM

Hmmm. Who makes a more compelling case for the usage of Hybrid vehicles?

Scientists -

http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/cars_pickups_suvs/

or

A marketing group?

http://www.cnwmr.com/

"This report is impossible to validate or verify in any way whatsoever because the marketing company that produced it did not include any of their source data or formulas used to calculate the claimed lifetime energy costs. This is not a scientific study, this is a marketing company's spin-doctored report masquerading as scientific study. There is no objectivity here, and no peer review, and it should be ignored as an unsupported claim by a biased organization"

-As posted by someone on cnw's site.

icky · 07-25-2006, 02:31 PM

A clear example of employing smoke and mirrors to show whatever you want to show.

I do agree that hybrids are a funny way to try to squeeze out more miles per gallon from gasoline.

**leejo** · 07-25-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFatKidDeath

"This report is impossible to validate or verify in any way whatsoever because the marketing company that produced it did not include any of their source data or formulas used to calculate the claimed lifetime energy costs. This is not a scientific study, this is a marketing company's spin-doctored report masquerading as scientific study. There is no objectivity here, and no peer review, and it should be ignored as an unsupported claim by a biased organization"

-As posted by someone on cnw's site.

Nice quote. Here's one from the depths of the report this poster chose not to read:

Quote:

Question: I don't accept the conclusions of your study which concluded with the fact that Hummer's were cheaper over lifetime use interms of energy than a hybrid vehicle. I'd like to know what asssumptions you made about the cost fo manufacture the metal that goes into a Hummer. Also, how much of the total lifetime energy use is assigned to driving, versus manufacture. Also, who funded this research? Thanks, Jenifer Taylor
Jennifer

Answer: Thanks for you question. They are good ones and worth exploring in detail in the final report which we will do.

To answer you: The study shows that H2 Hummers have approximately $800 worth of medium-weight steel used for manufacturing. Of this, less than $200 dollars is spent on energy to produce that steel. Medium-grade steel is extremely easy to recycle because the infrastructure to do so has been in place for literally decades.

To compare it to the Prius, for example, the cost of light-weight steel and steel composites used in that particular hybrid has a cost of about $585 (excluding the battery pack and related components). Unfortunately the energy necessary to produce this high-tech metal is about $230. The current and intermediate future of recycling light-weight steel and composite steel is less advanced. That means, simply, that the energy cost to dispose of this metal actually costs slightly more even though there is less of it.

We expect the light-weight and composite steel disposal cost will decline over time as the infrastructure improves, but we cannot and did not make that assumption because we don't know, at this point, when or even if that technology will be developed.

In addition, there is a question of how that recycled material will be re-used and for what types of second-generation products. Aluminum is passenger cars and trucks, once horribly expensive to dispose of, has finally found a way back into this second-generation market as cans and other packaging, but high-tech steel is simply not cost effective for such uses -- yet.

Over time, it is likely that recycling of high-tech steel will match the disposal cost of medium-steel. That, in turn, would bring the cost down to a point where it can be blended with medium-strength steel and find its way back to market as second-generation and even third-generation products.

But the simple fact is this: High tech solutions to such issues as rust -- few vehicles rust any longer -- costs more to produce in both financial and energy consumption terms. Complexity equals higher energy requirements.

Over the past 50 years, one of the most energy efficient vehicles -- from Dust to Dust -- was the original Volkswagen Beetle. Extremely simple to build; low-cost metals; lack of complex components; easily disposed of; high fuel economy; low maintenance; the most rudimentary of engines (from an energy consumption to build standpoint); and easy on the social transportation infrastructure (such as roads).

We calculated that the original VW Beetle had a Social Energy Dust to Dust Cost of less than a nickle -- about 10 percent of the current lowest cost vehicle the Scion xB.

The problem is that most consumers would find the original Beetle to be a horrible car to own and demand far more complexity in their transportation (from power windows to air bags).

If you visit the www.CNWMR.com site and open the May 12 spreadsheet it will show you the cost between manufacturing and driving over the lifetime of the vehicle. The full report will get into this in detail and you are welcome to review that report when it is released to the public. I will add your name to the notification list.

As for funding, we self-funded this study. No outside company or organization was aware of our research until we first announced the findings. We are not charging anyone for the study and providing it free to our subscribers as well as the public.

I hope that answers at least some of your questions. Please feel free to contact me anytime you wish at this email address.

Regards,

Art Spinella
President
CNW Marketing Research, Inc.

It appears to me that any supporting evidence is available upon request or with some searching. If you don't like their conclusions, you might try asking them to clarify instead of attempting to persuade people to ignore them. Not very scientific.

**CingularDuality** · 07-25-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icky

I do agree that hybrids are a funny way to try to squeeze out more miles per gallon from gasoline.

Some of the technologies are fantastic and will (or should, anyway) apply to all autos, eventually. I especially find the regenerative braking tech to be quite interesting. I think that eventually we're going to see most cars become "hybrid lite" vehicles, which use the fast start, regenerative braking and smaller batteries to enable us to cut out the most inefficient part of our current vehicles: idling and starting our cars.

**leejo** · 07-25-2006, 02:42 PM

I agree. There's some good technology in there that will spread to less exotic models soon enough.

**Trooper** · 07-25-2006, 02:43 PM

why does it have to be hybrid cars, why not alternative fuel like soybeans or corn. Which they are already doing, but not enough cars support them.

**CingularDuality** · 07-25-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

why does it have to be hybrid cars, why not alternative fuel like soybeans or corn. Which they are already doing, but not enough cars support them.

Don't know who you're responding to, but I'm suggesting that the tech involved in hybrids is great. I just don't think that powering the entire car with batteries seems to be working... Alternate fuels are great, but I still think we need to see some of these hybrid techs in EVERY car, regardless of fuel source.

**Trooper** · 07-25-2006, 02:48 PM

I was just throwing that out there. And i agree the tech needs to be used more readily and alot more efficient.

07-25-2006, 12:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? Link to article __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

07-25-2006, 12:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? As a matter of fact I...oh...uh...nevermind.

07-25-2006, 01:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? I think where i live, i might get shot because some on might think im stealing it.....but i will give it a try __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

07-25-2006, 01:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
RocketPunch Join Date: May 2006 Location: NY, USA Posts: 1,119	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? I think they are talking about the Hummer Alpha (H2 and H3 is NOT a Hummer), which is already out of production (at least for the public). I always have my doubts with Hybrid cars, especially when the current EPA standard (which is developed in the 70's) is widely known as inaccurate and does not reflect "todays actual driving condition", to begin with. My ride had an EPA rating of 22 city/30 Highway, but the actual I got was really around 18city/24highway. To me the EPA rating sticker on cars are nothing more than ads for manufacturers and environmental propaganda created by EPA. If you really care about the environment, use public transportation. If you want freedom, get a scooter/motorcycle. __________________ Slow is Smooth. Smooth is Fast!

07-25-2006, 01:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 34 Posts: 2,793	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? Someone gave me a T-shirt with a picture of a hummer on it and the word "BUMMER" printed in the hummer font.

07-25-2006, 01:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
TG_Bubba Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: shhh, in HAZMAT's garage Age: 54 Posts: 6,226	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? Reading the title of this thread...... ah got to get my mind out of the gutter. __________________ Tactical Game Primer\|Call of Duty - Official Rules, Announcements & SOPs\|Have a problem? Need an admin? TG_Mateo: "Forget freedom, democracy, the blues and New York Pizza: Our lasting contribution to human society is Bourbon."

07-25-2006, 02:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
TheFatKidDeath Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Monica, CA Age: 39 Posts: 2,799	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? Hmmm. Who makes a more compelling case for the usage of Hybrid vehicles? Scientists - http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/cars_pickups_suvs/ or A marketing group? http://www.cnwmr.com/ "This report is impossible to validate or verify in any way whatsoever because the marketing company that produced it did not include any of their source data or formulas used to calculate the claimed lifetime energy costs. This is not a scientific study, this is a marketing company's spin-doctored report masquerading as scientific study. There is no objectivity here, and no peer review, and it should be ignored as an unsupported claim by a biased organization" -As posted by someone on cnw's site.

07-25-2006, 02:31 PM	#9 (permalink)
icky Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ottawa Valley Posts: 6,154	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? A clear example of employing smoke and mirrors to show whatever you want to show. I do agree that hybrids are a funny way to try to squeeze out more miles per gallon from gasoline. __________________ Peace through fear... since 1947!

07-25-2006, 02:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? I agree. There's some good technology in there that will spread to less exotic models soon enough.

07-25-2006, 02:43 PM	#13 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? why does it have to be hybrid cars, why not alternative fuel like soybeans or corn. Which they are already doing, but not enough cars support them. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

07-25-2006, 02:48 PM	#15 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,894	Re: Have You Hugged a Hummer Today? I was just throwing that out there. And i agree the tech needs to be used more readily and alot more efficient. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

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