Terror in the Skies, Again?

**Badger** · 07-16-2004, 10:50 AM

This article is a very long, but definitely a fascinating read for those of you who do a lot of flying in this post 9/11 environment ....

Terror in the Skies, Again?

Regards,
Badger

IceCold · 07-16-2004, 11:17 AM

I read this the other day and became furious at the way political correctness is hampering our efforts at national security. I won't question the actions (or inaction) of the Federal Air Marshals on that flight (if there were any), but the policies followed by the airport screeners are disgusting. Profiling is good. Profiling based solely on race is not. We need to start profiling. When a group of people fits the profile of a terrorist, we need to look at them a bit closer, perhaps even detaining them for questioning if they continue to appear suspicious after a cursory interview. I don't want to see every young arabic male strip searched, but when a large group of people from a nation known to export terror shows up at the airport with a one way ticket on a large passenger plane speaking little English, carrying unusual baggage and otherwise arousing the distrust of people around them, then you're damn right we should refer them to a secondary screening. Will we be inconveniencing innocent people? I have no doubt. But lots of things have become inconvenient for all of us since September 11th, 2001.

patorean · 07-16-2004, 11:27 AM

Its a good read....kinda makes you go Hmmmm? I myself just came back from Haiti, when I landed in Toronto, Myself and the rest of my crew were throughly searched from head to toe.....even though we were still in uniform and carrying green passports.

**leejo** · 07-16-2004, 11:37 AM

Good article. I think the sad truth is that we (the US) will have to get popped really hard again before the gloves really come off. Hopefully technological advances and screening techniques most folks aren't aware of are improving quickly.

So Canada searches its own troops? Who searches the searchers then? I mean, isn't protecting Canada YOUR job?

patorean · 07-16-2004, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Good article. I think the sad truth is that we (the US) will have to get popped really hard again before the gloves really come off. Hopefully technological advances and screening techniques most folks aren't aware of are improving quickly.

So Canada searches its own troops? Who searches the searchers then? I mean, isn't protecting Canada YOUR job?

Well, whats good for all applies to all I suppose.

jex · 07-19-2004, 06:47 AM

I don't understand. It says that the sky marshalls can't do anything until an event has happened. Isn't that a little bit retarded. Once a bomb has been detonated exactly what use is a sky marshal? If anyone is acting suspiciously they should be taken to one side.

No-one should be allowed in toilets with bags unless they have special needs in which case they must file that with the airline and their bag will be checked on boarding. Absolutely no electrical devices (camera's, razor's, dictaphone's, etc). If people don't like that tough - then they don't deserve the right to fly.

Security is only as strong as it's weakest link.

Brooklyn · 07-19-2004, 08:19 AM

JEX thats not only funny its also sad too your right. They also where having the Air Marshalls board first so one man said why are those two guys boarding first when I have my mother here in a wheel chair ? the answer.. Oh Sir those two men are the Air Marshalls.... So much for covertness. Air Marshalls should boared the plane with everyone else, and be dressed in all types of clothing too.

**CingularDuality** · 07-19-2004, 09:21 AM

The Federal Air Marshals are being screwed over by a very inept set of managers. They've received some of the best training in the world for their particular situation, but it's all for naught as they're required to wear a coat and tie, to sit in specific seats, and are subject to horrible boarding procedures for their position. The problem seems to be that most of their management is made up of retired Secret Service agents that weren't required to go through the FAM training and that aren't required to fly. Their management simply doesn't know what the job entails... Many, many FAMs are highly disgruntled and their attrition rate (after only a few years) is unbelievable.

As to this particular story, I don't know if there were actually any FAMs on board. I'd like to think that there weren't...

**phyllis** · 07-19-2004, 08:42 PM

Wow....after reading that...I'd have to say, those people handled it alot better than I may have....that behavior, just put in text is enough to warrant action IMO...I can't imagine the feeling of sitting in that aircraft, watching all that, and nothing being done...

Is there going to any overhaul of FAM procedures,etc anytime soon, or are we going to have to wait for another "event" to happen before the gloves come off ? Seems to me, passengers shouldn't be allowed to access carry-ons....I know...babies, meds and such...but otherwise...you don't get into that luggage until the tarmac....

**CingularDuality** · 07-19-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phyllis

Is there going to any overhaul of FAM procedures,etc anytime soon, or are we going to have to wait for another "event" to happen before the gloves come off ?

A man named Tom Quinn is in charge of the FAMs and he's really pissing off a lot of the flying FAMs with some of his ideas of what a FAM should do and look like... As long as he's in charge, I doubt things are going to seriously change. He actually called the flying FAMs "peabrained" and "cowards" because they are complaining about the way things are.

**CingularDuality** · 07-19-2004, 10:17 PM

Follow up article: http://womenswallstreet.com/WWS/arti...&articleid=714

In this article, she mentions this photo, which deserves it's own story and link: http://www.esquire.com/features/arti...falling_1.html

**phyllis** · 07-19-2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Follow up article: http://womenswallstreet.com/WWS/arti...&articleid=714

Thanks for keeping up for us !!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

In this article, she mentions this photo, which deserves it's own story and link: http://www.esquire.com/features/arti...falling_1.html

Thanks for the link Dave....

Guys...that is a must read !

**DudeMan** · 07-19-2004, 11:40 PM

lesson learned if you think something is happeing start a fight, chances are you will be questioned but you may foil an attempt because a fight is something happening.

so the marshals can stand in and bang terror plot foiled

IceCold · 07-20-2004, 06:18 PM

Quote:

New York Times, NY, July 20, Joe Sharkey
There is no doubt that something out of the ordinary happened on
Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles on June 29. Was
the episode a dry run for a terrorist attack, as is now being widely
suggested on the Internet and on talk radio, or an aborted terrorist
attack? Or was it an innocent sequence of events that some passengers,
overcome by anxiety and perhaps ethnic stereotyping, misinterpreted as a
plot to blow up their plane? Yesterday, a Federal Air Marshal Service
spokesman, Dave Adams, a law enforcement officer for 30 years, said that
the suspicious characters on Flight 327 were musicians. The man in the
yellow shirt was a drummer, he said. "We interviewed all 14 of these
individuals,'' Mr. Adams said. "They were members of a Syrian band"
traveling to a gig at a casino near Los Angeles, he said, adding that
their names were run through "every possible" data bank and terrorist
watch list. "They were scrubbed. Nothing came back."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/20/business/20road.html

IceCold · 07-20-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

lesson learned if you think something is happeing start a fight, chances are you will be questioned but you may foil an attempt because a fight is something happening.

so the marshals can stand in and bang terror plot foiled

Federal Air Marshals are not supposed to break cover for minor things like fist fights...

07-16-2004, 10:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
Badger Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 160	Terror in the Skies, Again? This article is a very long, but definitely a fascinating read for those of you who do a lot of flying in this post 9/11 environment .... Terror in the Skies, Again? Regards, Badger __________________ Regards, \|42nd\| Badger badger@tacticalgamer.com "My Strength is My Team" "Duty, Honor, Courage"

07-16-2004, 11:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
IceCold Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 716	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? I read this the other day and became furious at the way political correctness is hampering our efforts at national security. I won't question the actions (or inaction) of the Federal Air Marshals on that flight (if there were any), but the policies followed by the airport screeners are disgusting. Profiling is good. Profiling based solely on race is not. We need to start profiling. When a group of people fits the profile of a terrorist, we need to look at them a bit closer, perhaps even detaining them for questioning if they continue to appear suspicious after a cursory interview. I don't want to see every young arabic male strip searched, but when a large group of people from a nation known to export terror shows up at the airport with a one way ticket on a large passenger plane speaking little English, carrying unusual baggage and otherwise arousing the distrust of people around them, then you're damn right we should refer them to a secondary screening. Will we be inconveniencing innocent people? I have no doubt. But lots of things have become inconvenient for all of us since September 11th, 2001.

07-16-2004, 11:27 AM	#3 (permalink)
patorean Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 220	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? Its a good read....kinda makes you go Hmmmm? I myself just came back from Haiti, when I landed in Toronto, Myself and the rest of my crew were throughly searched from head to toe.....even though we were still in uniform and carrying green passports.

07-16-2004, 11:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? Good article. I think the sad truth is that we (the US) will have to get popped really hard again before the gloves really come off. Hopefully technological advances and screening techniques most folks aren't aware of are improving quickly. So Canada searches its own troops? Who searches the searchers then? I mean, isn't protecting Canada YOUR job?

07-19-2004, 06:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
jex Join Date: May 2003 Location: United Kingdom Age: 37 Posts: 3,407	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? I don't understand. It says that the sky marshalls can't do anything until an event has happened. Isn't that a little bit retarded. Once a bomb has been detonated exactly what use is a sky marshal? If anyone is acting suspiciously they should be taken to one side. No-one should be allowed in toilets with bags unless they have special needs in which case they must file that with the airline and their bag will be checked on boarding. Absolutely no electrical devices (camera's, razor's, dictaphone's, etc). If people don't like that tough - then they don't deserve the right to fly. Security is only as strong as it's weakest link. __________________ Jex

07-19-2004, 08:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Brooklyn Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 157	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? JEX thats not only funny its also sad too your right. They also where having the Air Marshalls board first so one man said why are those two guys boarding first when I have my mother here in a wheel chair ? the answer.. Oh Sir those two men are the Air Marshalls.... So much for covertness. Air Marshalls should boared the plane with everyone else, and be dressed in all types of clothing too.

07-19-2004, 09:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,063	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? The Federal Air Marshals are being screwed over by a very inept set of managers. They've received some of the best training in the world for their particular situation, but it's all for naught as they're required to wear a coat and tie, to sit in specific seats, and are subject to horrible boarding procedures for their position. The problem seems to be that most of their management is made up of retired Secret Service agents that weren't required to go through the FAM training and that aren't required to fly. Their management simply doesn't know what the job entails... Many, many FAMs are highly disgruntled and their attrition rate (after only a few years) is unbelievable. As to this particular story, I don't know if there were actually any FAMs on board. I'd like to think that there weren't... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

07-19-2004, 08:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
phyllis Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dayton Ohio Age: 40 Posts: 1,502	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? Wow....after reading that...I'd have to say, those people handled it alot better than I may have....that behavior, just put in text is enough to warrant action IMO...I can't imagine the feeling of sitting in that aircraft, watching all that, and nothing being done... Is there going to any overhaul of FAM procedures,etc anytime soon, or are we going to have to wait for another "event" to happen before the gloves come off ? Seems to me, passengers shouldn't be allowed to access carry-ons....I know...babies, meds and such...but otherwise...you don't get into that luggage until the tarmac.... __________________

07-19-2004, 10:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,063	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? Follow up article: http://womenswallstreet.com/WWS/arti...&articleid=714 In this article, she mentions this photo, which deserves it's own story and link: http://www.esquire.com/features/arti...falling_1.html __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

07-19-2004, 11:40 PM	#13 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: Terror in the Skies, Again? lesson learned if you think something is happeing start a fight, chances are you will be questioned but you may foil an attempt because a fight is something happening. so the marshals can stand in and bang terror plot foiled __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

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