Switchcraft

Well, I want to believe you, but...

and
...had me a little concerned. In most of your comments in this thread you've sounded completely opposite of any of the conversations I've ever had with you about libertarian ideals we ever discussed while your TACSAT guys lobbed sand mortars at 8th Comm HQ.

leejo

This seems closer to the mark for getting into public hanging territory than being a 16-year old street urchin.

CingularDuality

My prostitute comment was to point out the facts that the quoted news article failed to print. I have no idea if she was a prostitute or not, but it woudn't surprise me in the least and the article seemed to dance around the idea. Regardless, she sounds a lot like the scum we have here in the US. I'm certainly not proposing that we start hanging our low-level criminals, but I won't deny that after seeing the same guy for the eleventieth time that it begins to sound more like an acceptable option.

But really, I was just trying to point out how lacking that news article was...

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leejo

Good point Cing. It's the BBC after all.

Iranian justice seems highly carpicious nonetheless. If the man had been hanged too, or if the common penalty for her actions were death, then my tender sensibilities might be less offended.

Switchcraft

Yeah, Cing, I kinda figured your job and the repeat offenders might have played a big part in your reactions in this thread.

I personally am okay with expanding the death penalty to cover other crimes (passing me in traffic at high speed only to slow down in front of me, and general douchebaggery both seem like acceptable places to start.) Hell, when I read stories like the one about the knife fight in the other thread, sometimes I think we ought to expand abortion rights out to 70 trimesters.

But I think of the Afghanis I've interacted with who had to put up with Sharia and it's just sickening to me that such a system is actually spreading, instead of being eradicated.

TheFeniX

I really hope you're being coy. I figured you were playing Devil's advocate during your first post, but since you're keeping this up: I'm not so sure.

A girl who lives in society that not only turns their back on female victims, but brutally punishes them if they come forward, turns out just like an abused victim (male or female) would in America without some form of mental or legal help, and you can not only understand it, but paint her as "scum?"

Maybe it's because I view prostitution as a victimless crime (which shouldn't be a crime at all), but your comment seems cold-hearted at the least.

Oh, and for those tearing into the American Capital Punishment system, it may be far from perfect (as any capital punishment system is), but there's only two crimes that can get you that punishment: Murder and Kidnapping (which you can thank the whole Lindberg fiasco on that one). Treason is a federal deal, so I wasn't going to mention it, but I knew I'd get called on it if I didn't.

And, unless I'm mistaken: I don't think America executes 16-year-olds for non-murder crimes on the whim of one judge. Granted, with the Republican party in it's current state: you never know.

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Root

The one thing they do have right, is cutting the hand off of a convicted thief. They'll only do it twice, instead of repeatedly going into rehab instead of jail.

The legal system over there sounds pretty scary. The only signitures on the petition were the arresting police? I hope Blair doesn't see that - he'll think it's a great idea. The article is a clear winning argument for the seperation of church and state.

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Wulfyn

I did not leave out that she was a prostitute as the evidence (third hand) that I read up made no account of this. I'd be interested in seeing where you got this information Cing.

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CingularDuality

Cold hearted, to be sure. Again, I'm not saying that I think a prostitute should be hanged, but I will say that I can respect the fact that their "justice" system does something to address repeated petty crimes, unlike ours.

Don't forget child molestation. That can get you the death penalty in Louisiana and soon Oklahoma.

But Fenix, you're right. I was playing devil's advocate in a sense. My cynical frustration with our justice system made my arguments go a bit overboard, I guess. I spend a lot of time in the Dallas County Jail, and I see the same thugs come in over and over and over. The same drunks. The same bums. They plea bargain and appeal and do all kinds of things to keep from serving any serious amount of jail time, if any, and there's practically no deterrent to their crimes. I'm not suggesting that we hang these people, but I sure do wish that we'd do something a bit harsher than giving them time served. But with our jails and prisons so overcrowded, there's not much that we CAN do...

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Zephyr

Sharia law is better than no law at all. In the case of that disorganized mess we call Afghanistan I'm sure it's populace would prefer to have a practical law system, with central government's secular law and order not being enforcable, that would, with the justification of god, significantly punish criminal offenders and protect women.

I do not believe in the death penalty for adultery in the Western world because it has developed extremely effective methods of birth control that eradicate biggest reason a country would make it a death offense: Bastards. In their world however, I can't bring myself to disagree completely.

The problem simply lies in the grevious error that a man's word is taken over that of a girl's no matter what. If the girl could have defended herself in a gender equal court maybe then the man would have gotten the execution. Women are rarely at fault in rape. If they were the men would be covering themselves from view, not the other way around.
-Zephyr

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Switchcraft

Sharia law as applied if Afghanistan allowed the beating and execution of women who dared leave the home without a male escort. Is that something you can't disagree with completely?

Zephyr

Considering how likely it is that she could be kidnapped, raped, and killed by militants I think I can see why you would try to force rules that would keep her out of situations where that could happen. Yes the punishments are severe, but so are the consequences a woman going out alone into a warzone. Bring them peace first, then tell them to change their rules. Quite frankly I don't see how we can take away the only rule system that seems to actually work.
-Zephyr

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You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

We are no clan.
We are not a single game.
We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

leejo

I think you've picked a pretty tough piece of land to defend there Zephyr. If you truly wish to align yourself in defense of Sharia law, that's your thing, but these laws do not correlate well to societies that provide good opportunities for women.

CingularDuality

Perhaps you're right, but we must also recognize that different cultures have different morals. We might think it's horrendous to hang someone for prostitution, while there are some countries that think it's outrageous to allow the murder of unborn children via abortion (for example... let's not get into this debate here.).

Are our age of consent laws unreasonable? Are our drug laws? What about our vagrancy laws? There are just so many differences between our cultures, that it's going to be difficult to update their judicial system until the rest of their culture catches up with the rest of the world.

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leejo

They can sharia themselves to death for all I care. I just don't want that crap spreading to a neighborhood near me and will resist completely. And I'm perfectly within my rights to express my opinion about that sad brutal squallor they're calling culture.

In the meantime cultural relativism is turning its back on women by the millions. Surprising how many people feel they have no dog in this fight.