Very nice interview about gun control - Page 3

xTYBALTx · 08-09-2006, 11:26 AM

See, it's also my understanding that a "right of the people" refers to a liberty which the people may excercise. I don't see how gun control advocates can get around that...

**TheFeniX** · 08-09-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Hijack!

BOOYAH!

Quote:

Ever thought about what it would take to clear your home? Would you rather turn the corner into your bedroom with a 21" barrel that you have to swing around, or with a 10" barrel that requires no effort? The spread will not matter in most people's homes, where most shots would be around 5 yards...

Buy a pistol grip.

Quote:

It's the same reason that I'm going to build a short barreled AR15 to keep in my truck when I win the lottery... Easier to swing around in confined quarters.

A carbine vs rifle is a different deal than taking a hack-saw to a perfectly good shotgun.

Quote:

I'm not much of a shotgun guy, though, so I have zero desire to own a sawed off shotgun.

There's not much to it: buy a hacksaw.

**CingularDuality** · 08-09-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

Quick one.

I am currectly trying to do do some research about Preambles and the term "bear arms".

In the interview the author points out that at the time preambles where very important and taken very seriously.

I'm sure they were. And they still are, but most legal codes break them down into different sections now, which include legal definitions.

**CingularDuality** · 08-09-2006, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

Buy a pistol grip.

That won't make your long shotgun fit through a doorway sideways...

**TheFeniX** · 08-09-2006, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

That won't make your long shotgun fit through a doorway sideways...

An 18" barrel + a pistol grip is just over 2 feet long, much shorter than most rifles.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-09-2006, 11:39 PM

I had time to look into "Bear Arms". It seams that this primarily of a military thing. At least back then.

This I could be wrong about.

Any body got any references?

There is something and that is the use of the word "infringed".

I the first admendment they use "shall make no law". In the second it simply says "infringed".

This seems to be significant.

xTYBALTx · 08-10-2006, 02:30 AM

I don't find the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" very equivocal.

**CingularDuality** · 08-10-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

I had time to look into "Bear Arms". It seams that this primarily of a military thing. At least back then.

This I could be wrong about.

Any body got any references?

I don't think the meaning of the word "bear" nor of the word "arms" has changed much at all in the past few hundred years...

Quote:

There is something and that is the use of the word "infringed".

I the first admendment they use "shall make no law". In the second it simply says "infringed".

This seems to be significant.

Interesting, to say the least... Personally, I think that "shall not be infringed" is stronger than "shall make no law regarding".

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-13-2006, 08:31 PM

QUOTE=xTYBALTx;545414]I don't find the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" very equivocal.[/quote]

But I think that it is a mistake to take that phrase all by itself. It is only relevant with regard to the first part, the preamble.

I have been thinking a lot about this over the past couple of weeks. And I have come to conclude that the important part of the second amendment has nothing to do with fire arms of any type.

Because that first part is very important to understanding the second amendment. It pretty much says that being a citizen of this State (America) you must be able to defend the state. You must put your life on the line to protect the freedoms. Being in the militia is not something you decide to do. It is a responsibility that you must fulfill.

That second part is only in there to ensure that you can effectively carry out your responsibility. That second part is not for the benefit of the individual, it is for the benefit of the state.

I think the sad part, the failing, of the government with regards to the second amendment is not any Brady bills or assault weapon bans. It is that the State has not regulated the militia. It has let us become fat, dumb and happy because the standing army does a large portion of what we should be doing.

I go on to proclaim that if the State would regulate the militia that the trailing part of the amendment would rarely be discussed or be an issue. I say this because if the State banned a certain weapon that was vital to the militia those that banned it would not be long in the position to ban anything. That those that banned it would also be IN the militia so they would have a mind of what was needed to defend the freedom of all in the nation.

The sad part is that we see the second amendment as an individual right when it is meant to be a individuals responsibility.

**CingularDuality** · 08-13-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

The sad part is that we see the second amendment as an individual right when it is meant to be a individuals responsibility.

I love this concept, and would love to see our nation adopt a mandatory reserve/militia system like Switzerland's. But you're off base when it comes to the meaning of the second amendment. You're ignoring the entire purpose of the Bill of Rights. It most assuredly was written to protect the rights of the people, not to benefit the state.

08-09-2006, 11:26 AM	#31 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: Very nice interview about gun control See, it's also my understanding that a "right of the people" refers to a liberty which the people may excercise. I don't see how gun control advocates can get around that... __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

08-09-2006, 11:39 PM	#36 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 40 Posts: 2,861	Re: Very nice interview about gun control I had time to look into "Bear Arms". It seams that this primarily of a military thing. At least back then. This I could be wrong about. Any body got any references? There is something and that is the use of the word "infringed". I the first admendment they use "shall make no law". In the second it simply says "infringed". This seems to be significant. __________________ I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

08-10-2006, 02:30 AM	#37 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: Very nice interview about gun control I don't find the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" very equivocal. __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

08-13-2006, 08:31 PM	#39 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 40 Posts: 2,861	Re: Very nice interview about gun control QUOTE=xTYBALTx;545414]I don't find the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" very equivocal.[/quote] But I think that it is a mistake to take that phrase all by itself. It is only relevant with regard to the first part, the preamble. I have been thinking a lot about this over the past couple of weeks. And I have come to conclude that the important part of the second amendment has nothing to do with fire arms of any type. Because that first part is very important to understanding the second amendment. It pretty much says that being a citizen of this State (America) you must be able to defend the state. You must put your life on the line to protect the freedoms. Being in the militia is not something you decide to do. It is a responsibility that you must fulfill. That second part is only in there to ensure that you can effectively carry out your responsibility. That second part is not for the benefit of the individual, it is for the benefit of the state. I think the sad part, the failing, of the government with regards to the second amendment is not any Brady bills or assault weapon bans. It is that the State has not regulated the militia. It has let us become fat, dumb and happy because the standing army does a large portion of what we should be doing. I go on to proclaim that if the State would regulate the militia that the trailing part of the amendment would rarely be discussed or be an issue. I say this because if the State banned a certain weapon that was vital to the militia those that banned it would not be long in the position to ban anything. That those that banned it would also be IN the militia so they would have a mind of what was needed to defend the freedom of all in the nation. The sad part is that we see the second amendment as an individual right when it is meant to be a individuals responsibility. __________________ I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

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