icky

Sorry, I shouldn't have done that. It was a momentary fit of insanity.

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Peace through fear... since 1947!

icky

I'm not going to admit anything unless you tell me what I'm admitting. I think I covered the bases of THAT issue.

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Peace through fear... since 1947!

xtcmen

Lol tax cuts for rich cha ching! $$$$

wildcat2000

Yeah our system is all messed up. They tax the middle class and let the rich get off easy.

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wildcat2000

There's no way I would be working in my field if we did not have unions. Unless you like having fewer benefits and less money.

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CingularDuality

To look at unions, you MUST try to look at it objectively. Sure, I like everything my union does for me, because I benefit monetarily from it! But look at what the unions did to the US auto industry. Look at how the unions have since backed off. There were guys getting paid $18 an hour to sit on their ass and do nothing. And the union would not let their positions be terminated! That's an extreme example, but it demonstrates that unions are not always good. They almost destroyed the US auto industry (the future is still uncertain), and their shortsighted thinking is hurting, for example, national security, by mandating that Customs and Border Protection Officers not be made to get out of their booth to look into a vehicle's trunk!

There was a time when industrial giants were really taking advantage of the working class. That time is gone. There's no longer any need for the large labor unions of yesteryear. If you're supporting your union just because they got you a raise earlier this year, then just admit that you support it because you're greedy, not because the union is some sort of benevolent organization...

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Trooper

Yah thats what i was getting at. Auto Unions just give people who are lazy jobs and over stuffed paychecks. Those pay checks cost the auto makers millions which are then past onto use the consumer. Get rid of unions people are payed what they are worth and the cost of EVERYTHING goes down, i mean everything.

Some unions are good, most are bad

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

wildcat2000

So you are saying you would rather have minimum wage, no benefits and no retirement plan. Companies today treat people like trash. So I am assuming that you like being treated like that. I know there are lazy people out there sitting on their ass and getting paid for it. There will always be kinks in the system.

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wildcat2000

Good luck getting people to work for nothing. Look at the education system for example, educators actually have to pay the dues for the union (its optional) and sometimes you do not get all that money back after taxes. THe only thing the union covers us is a lawyer, and negotiations for our contracts which includes step increases, cost of living increase and other glitches in our contract.

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Steeler

I think management bears some responsibility for the plight of the auto industry, doesn't it? Who was pumping out gigantic overpriced gas-guzzling cars while reinvesting only a tiny measure into alternative fuels and electrics when every future projection pointed to a surge in oil prices? Who decided to forcibly limit the development of low-emissions engines when American federal policy was pushing in that direction? Who blew billions on lobbying against regulation when they could have been trying to trump federal emissions standards with better numbers? Who raises executive salaries to 500 times the assembly line worker and rewards VIPs with golden parachutes when they run business into the ground? Wasn't the unions.

The power of unions has been steadily decreasing with better working conditions and contract bargaining. Eventually you reach some kind of stasis. But if you outlaw unions (which is what we're talking about here, right? Getting rid of them?) then you tumble right back into the pre-collective bargaining period of yesteryear, and eventually the common worker loses the last of his power.

Incidentally, I thought this was a thread about the minimum wage. Not that I miss the comically half-assed economic theory that inevitably appears in such a thread, but how did we get to unions?

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wildcat2000

An excellent point, Steeler. You made more sense that I did.

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Trooper

Unions...5 or 6 years ago GM had a plan for a Yukon that would get 40MPS, no joke. The unions voted against it. Im not sure why but they did.

Maybe if people where paid what they are worth americans would get their heads out of their asses and make this place better.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

wildcat2000

Oil companies always have the biggest fear of loosing money right now, sometimes it takes a necessary push of some other group to go against it. Our government is finally taking the steps to require car manufacturers to make the vehicles get better gas mileage. I don't think people will every get paid what they are worth.

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IRS_Agent

Both Wisconsin senators opposed the bill (Herb Kohl (D) and Russ Fiengold (D)) pretty much because it included more tax cuts for the rich. I can't stand all these bills where they sneak in little extras that have little to do with the point of the said legislation (I know there is a term for it, but it slipped my mind).

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The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.



I
#83 of 213 things you cannot do in the army.
83. Must not start any SITREP (Situation Report) with "I recently had an experience I just had to write you about...."

Trooper

Theft? Lieing? Cheating? Bribery?

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan