Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich

Buck Fush · 08-04-2006, 12:21 PM

I'm sure this thread will deteriorate into talking about how stupid both sides are, but before it does I have a question. In the quote below, it says that Frist voted with the Dems for procedural reasons. Does anyone know what that procedural reason would be? I'm curious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Article

Four Democrats joined 52 Republicans in the vote, while 38 Democrats, one independent and three Republicans opposed the bill, including Mr. Frist, who voted with the opponents for procedural reasons.

Article

Steeler · 08-04-2006, 12:28 PM

I believe that by voting against it, he reserves the right to re-introduce the same bill later in the year.

Buck Fush · 08-04-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

I believe that by voting against it, he reserves the right to re-introduce the same bill later in the year.

That's what I was thinking also. Thanks.

Trooper · 08-04-2006, 12:40 PM

Why do these people think that raising the min wage is gonna solve anything. They raise it prices go up for everyone else. Reducing/eliminating auto and labor unions would do so much for this country.....

Steeler · 08-04-2006, 01:21 PM

Reducing/eliminating auto and labor unions = lower wages, fewer benefits.

If we hadn't been sitting on the minimum wage with no adjustments for cost of living for the past decade, companies wouldn't have sticker shock now. It has to be done at some point. The longer we wait the more painful it will be.

Trooper · 08-04-2006, 01:29 PM

no eliminating min wage gets people paid what they are worth. what do you think unions do? they get lazy people wages they dont deserve. i have lost a couple jobs and many family membrs has lost jobs because they wouldnt join the union. It was either join or loose your job.

Unions where not ment for long term use they where put into effect just like SS and welfare.

Spyder · 08-04-2006, 02:37 PM

Most states don't follow the federal minimum wage anyway. I know in MN there was a big hullo when they raised it to $6.00 for the state, and I recall reading that MN was one of the last states to raise it above the federal minimum.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-04-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trooper[SNPR]

no eliminating min wage gets people paid what they are worth.

If both parents work and they work every day of the week the full 40 hours they will bring home around 22,000 a year before taxes if they get minimum wage.

You want a good, traditional family with one parent staying home with the kids? Take it down to 11,000 per year before taxes.

Ok, I don't fully agree with the minimum wage but I would say the majority of people in this country are worth more than that.

Especially considering there are some worthless individuals making millions.

icky · 08-04-2006, 04:17 PM

Given a free market, people who are "worth more than that" will be paid more than that. I like the idea of a minimum to keep employers from preying on the desperate, but you certainly can't suggest that the minimum be based on the amount a couple needs to raise children with one person working. If you can't afford to have children and you aren't willing to do what it takes to change that, then you shouldn't have children. Hell, I can barely afford children, and the last time I made minimum wage was 1985 (I earned a raise after about 3 months). There are safety nets in place to protect the children if people choose to go for it without thinking.

Encouraging people to do the minimum is a very bad road to follow.

Trooper · 08-04-2006, 08:11 PM

thank you icky for saying exactly what i was thinking.

xTYBALTx · 08-04-2006, 08:22 PM

The min wage increase was included to attract four specific senators, all of whom voted against the bill. If they had all voted in favor, it would've passed (three were needed if you count Frist). It will be difficult to get Democratic support for a bill like this right before an election in which many expect significant gains for the Dems. That's why we've seen compromise bill after compromise bill. If the Republicans still have both houses (as I'd expect them to) after the election, we might see it get through at that time.

Unless the bill is watered down even further than it already is (which is a lot) or more junk is thrown in to attract Dems, I can't see it passing.

icky · 08-04-2006, 08:54 PM

And by the way, although I'm sure everyone knows this, the american political system is completely insane. I don't know much about it, but when you hear just a little of what is going on there, you realize that the whole system has evolved around corruption and cash. I wonder if anyone has any ideas as to how you can restore such a broken system.

Oops... thread hijack.

aeroripper · 08-04-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icky

And by the way, although I'm sure everyone knows this, the american political system is completely insane. I don't know much about it, but when you hear just a little of what is going on there, you realize that the whole system has evolved around corruption and cash. I wonder if anyone has any ideas as to how you can restore such a broken system.

Oops... thread hijack.

It's a trap! Stay on subject everyone

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-04-2006, 09:16 PM

Actually it was off topic after post #3.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 08-04-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icky

Given a free market, people who are "worth more than that" will be paid more than that. I like the idea of a minimum to keep employers from preying on the desperate, but you certainly can't suggest that the minimum be based on the amount a couple needs to raise children with one person working. If you can't afford to have children and you aren't willing to do what it takes to change that, then you shouldn't have children. Hell, I can barely afford children, and the last time I made minimum wage was 1985 (I earned a raise after about 3 months). There are safety nets in place to protect the children if people choose to go for it without thinking.

Encouraging people to do the minimum is a very bad road to follow.

As long as you agree there should be a minimum there is hope.

I do take issue with the whole "if you can't afford to have children" thing. Not that it is a wrong statement. It is of course right. But you have to admit that the issue is magnitudes, and I mean magnitudes, larger and more complicated than that, don't you?

08-04-2006, 12:28 PM	#2 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,952	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich I believe that by voting against it, he reserves the right to re-introduce the same bill later in the year. __________________

08-04-2006, 12:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,639	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich Why do these people think that raising the min wage is gonna solve anything. They raise it prices go up for everyone else. Reducing/eliminating auto and labor unions would do so much for this country..... __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

08-04-2006, 01:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,952	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich Reducing/eliminating auto and labor unions = lower wages, fewer benefits. If we hadn't been sitting on the minimum wage with no adjustments for cost of living for the past decade, companies wouldn't have sticker shock now. It has to be done at some point. The longer we wait the more painful it will be. __________________

08-04-2006, 01:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,639	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich no eliminating min wage gets people paid what they are worth. what do you think unions do? they get lazy people wages they dont deserve. i have lost a couple jobs and many family membrs has lost jobs because they wouldnt join the union. It was either join or loose your job. Unions where not ment for long term use they where put into effect just like SS and welfare. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

08-04-2006, 02:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Spyder Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: MN (Middle of Nowhere, MN) Age: 25 Posts: 996	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich Most states don't follow the federal minimum wage anyway. I know in MN there was a big hullo when they raised it to $6.00 for the state, and I recall reading that MN was one of the last states to raise it above the federal minimum. __________________ a.k.a. NinjaPirateAssassin Celibacy is not Hereditary. Everybody should believe in something - I believe I'll have another drink. Happiness is like wetting your pants, everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth. Flying is easy, Just throw yourself at the ground and miss!

08-04-2006, 04:17 PM	#9 (permalink)
icky Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ottawa Valley Posts: 6,154	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich Given a free market, people who are "worth more than that" will be paid more than that. I like the idea of a minimum to keep employers from preying on the desperate, but you certainly can't suggest that the minimum be based on the amount a couple needs to raise children with one person working. If you can't afford to have children and you aren't willing to do what it takes to change that, then you shouldn't have children. Hell, I can barely afford children, and the last time I made minimum wage was 1985 (I earned a raise after about 3 months). There are safety nets in place to protect the children if people choose to go for it without thinking. Encouraging people to do the minimum is a very bad road to follow. __________________ Peace through fear... since 1947!

08-04-2006, 08:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
Trooper Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In my wifes house......if she says i can Age: 25 Posts: 8,639	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich thank you icky for saying exactly what i was thinking. __________________ that sounds like a good idea trooper. -Vulcan

08-04-2006, 08:22 PM	#11 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,851	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich The min wage increase was included to attract four specific senators, all of whom voted against the bill. If they had all voted in favor, it would've passed (three were needed if you count Frist). It will be difficult to get Democratic support for a bill like this right before an election in which many expect significant gains for the Dems. That's why we've seen compromise bill after compromise bill. If the Republicans still have both houses (as I'd expect them to) after the election, we might see it get through at that time. Unless the bill is watered down even further than it already is (which is a lot) or more junk is thrown in to attract Dems, I can't see it passing. __________________ Current good song: Justice - Stress "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

08-04-2006, 08:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
icky Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ottawa Valley Posts: 6,154	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich And by the way, although I'm sure everyone knows this, the american political system is completely insane. I don't know much about it, but when you hear just a little of what is going on there, you realize that the whole system has evolved around corruption and cash. I wonder if anyone has any ideas as to how you can restore such a broken system. Oops... thread hijack. __________________ Peace through fear... since 1947!

08-04-2006, 09:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 39 Posts: 2,545	Re: Min Wage Increase == Tax Cuts for the Rich Actually it was off topic after post #3. __________________ Sen. Barack Obama (IL) For President '08 --- I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

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