We kicked the Japanese butts !

Pickle · 08-15-2006, 11:20 AM

This is absolute proof that people are nuts. In light of the family friendly forum we have here I won't use the words I would like to. However, the people involved in this are incredibly stupid and insensitive to the vets who fought and died in that war. My grandfather was one of them.

PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Church bells rang. Whistles at fire stations and mill factories sounded. People poured into the streets, waving flags and honking car horns. It was Aug. 14, 1945 — the day Americans learned that Japan had surrendered, ending the costliest conflict in human history.

"It was pandemonium with happiness," remembered John Lucas, a World War II veteran and executive secretary of the Pawtucket Veterans Council.

On Monday, Rhode Island will once again observe the end of World War II, the only state still celebrating Victory Day, commonly referred to as Victory over Japan Day, or V-J Day.

Critics say it's discriminatory, and would like to eliminate the holiday or at least remove its reference to Japan.

They point out that Rhode Islanders do not celebrate the U.S. victory over Germany, which was defeated three months earlier.

"This is a stigma against the Japanese whom we do business with and are allies," said George Lima, a former state representative who worked on a failed attempt to eliminate the holiday in the 1980s.

Veterans groups remain committed to the holiday, celebrated on the second Monday of August.

"This is the way the veterans feel about it in Rhode Island," said George Panichas, a former legislator who was a gunner on a B-17 bomber during World War II. "They fought against the Japanese, and they just don't forget it."

There have been several attempts to change the holiday's name, but each time lawmakers met overwhelming opposition, said state Sen. Rhoda Perry. She introduced bills in 1992, 1994 and 1995 to change the holiday to Rhode Island Veterans Day. A second 1995 bill would have changed it to Peace and Remembrance Day.

Perry said she received "vitriolic" mail from veterans.

"It was absolutely a no-winner," Perry said. "I did not have support, period."

However, the General Assembly passed a 1990 resolution stating that Victory Day is not a day to express satisfaction in the destruction and death caused by nuclear bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

People need the holiday to remember the sacrifices veterans made during the war, said James Brennan, a survivor of the 1942 Bataan Death March in which Japanese soldiers tortured and killed thousands of American and Filipino prisoners.

However, Brennan said he does not harbor ill feelings toward the Japanese and does not believe the holiday incites racism or hatred.

"July 4 is our national holiday because we defeated England. Do we hate the English? No," he said. "It's the same with V-J Day. We are the ones who won the war."

Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Washington, said he is glad Rhode Island has kept the holiday.

"Rhode Island is continuing to celebrate a great victory at a tremendous cost," Davis said, noting the deaths of about 400,000 Americans in World War II.

Arkansas is believed to be the last state to drop Victory Day. When the legislature listed official state holidays in 1975, it omitted Victory Day, which it had called World War II Memorial Day, state capital historian David Ware said. The holiday appears to have been omitted without much fuss, Ware said.

"What happens over time is that people's memories fade," said Marilyn Zoidis, a curator at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History. "If there's not a strong enough memory to support a holiday, there's no strong reason to keep funding it."

That's what some hope will happen in Rhode Island.

Mikki Lima, a Japanese-American who runs the Rhode Island Japan Society in Providence, said she is working to educate younger Americans about Japanese culture. If the holiday can't be eliminated, she hopes it can at least be celebrated under a new name because of Victory Day's implicit reference to the victory over Japan.

"Someday, this foolish holiday's name will be changed," Lima said.

**Apophis** · 08-15-2006, 11:26 AM

I hope my state never gives up the VJ day holiday. Not only do I get the day out of work (which I enjoyed!), but it reminds us of the victory achieved in the Pacific campaign of WWII. The US got involved in the European campaign of WWII out of good will (more or less), the Pacific campaign was the result of a direct attack by Japan on US soil.

I have no problem with Japan or it's culture and people. But at the same time, I don't see the issue with celebrating the victory in the Pactific campaign of WWII.

Steeler · 08-15-2006, 11:31 AM

It all comes back to the use of the Bomb and camp internments of Japanese Americans during the war. Still sore subjects for many. That's probably what has people so emotionally invested in opposing the holiday.

**TheFeniX** · 08-15-2006, 11:32 AM

I can't say I find it stupid that some people find it racist. It seems like it may be a bit unfounded though.

The Japanese have a much stronger cultural identity than caucasians. I'm a mix between many European nationalities (British, French, mainly German). You couldn't tell by looking at me though, because I'm an American. Asians have it a bit rougher. They are a visible minority. And as a minority, they can deal with the same amount of racism as blacks and hispanics.

The issue here is that it's really about one nations victory over another, but some Japanese Americans still have strong cultural ties to their nation. So, in actuality: we're celebrating curb stomping their nation, not their race.

Anyways, my grandfather fought on the European front, but I've always found it weird to annually celebrate a war. July 4th isn't about the war, it's about when we declared ourselves a nation of it's own. We're celebrating our independence, even if it was won (later) with a war.

Pickle · 08-15-2006, 11:37 AM

VJ day is about ending the war/victory over an evil empire/the end of sending our boys to fight a war we didnt start. I see absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating the end of a war.
These people should be happy we stopped killing their people and should celebrate the end of that horrific action too. By protesting this holiday these people are severely negating the sacrifice that Americans (Japanese Americans too) paid.
This holiday has absolutely nothing to do with racism or race. It has everything to do with a victory over an evil man and his empire.

Drizzid · 08-15-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Anyways, my grandfather fought on the European front, but I've always found it weird to annually celebrate a war. July 4th isn't about the war, it's about when we declared ourselves a nation of it's own. We're celebrating our independence, even if it was won (later) with a war.
__________________

I agree with Pickle about it being a celebration about the end of the war not the war itself. Remember that the Japanese thought they saw an oportunity when the americans were at war in Europe. They thought they would catch us with our pants down and they did initially but paid the price later in the war. The Japanese picked a fight and lost. It's not racism it a countries pride of the sacrifice and pride it feels for the men and women who fought to protect this country

Steeler · 08-15-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickle

These people should be happy we stopped killing their people and should celebrate the end of that horrific action too.

"You should be happy that my country didn't commit genocide against the people of your country. Grab a sparkler."

File that under "tough sell."

Rick_the_new_guy · 08-15-2006, 11:50 AM

I think the name should stay the same.

Being a fan of the book, 1984, I get worried that when names change like that. With time the officials may change the exact reasons it is celebrated also.

No sir.

The celebration is about the Japan War Machine demise. And may humans think about this and research the time period and theater in order to understand it better.

Good thread pickle.
Rhode Iland rocks.
Yes, and so do Puritians.

Pickle · 08-15-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

"You should be happy that my country didn't commit genocide against the people of your country. Grab a sparkler."

File that under "tough sell."

2 bombs and over 200,000 casualties is pretty close. As horrific as those numbers are they don't bother me. Care to light my sparkler?

Pickle · 08-15-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drizzid

Remember that the Japanese thought they saw an oportunity when the americans were at war in Europe. They thought they would catch us with our pants down and they did initially but paid the price later in the war. The Japanese picked a fight and lost. It's not racism it a countries pride of the sacrifice and pride it feels for the men and women who fought to protect this country

Just a quick not of clarification/correction. We were fighting Japan before Germany. Germany declared war on the U.S. after Japan, their ally, bombed Pearl Harbor. With the exception of the lend lease act we weren't engaged in Europe.

Drizzid · 08-15-2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickle

Just a quick not of clarification/correction. We were fighting Japan before Germany. Germany declared war on the U.S. after Japan, their ally, bombed Pearl Harbor. With the exception of the lend lease act we weren't engaged in Europe.

Hmm do you mean the official declaration of war? Because I thought we being the Americans were already involved in Europe when Japan launched the attack of Pearl Harbor. My understanding was that Japan didn't think that the US could fight a two front war. Am I wrong? If so could you clarify this info for me, it's been a long time since I studied WWII

Pickle · 08-15-2006, 12:13 PM

Japan probably did think that knowing that once they attacked we would be involved on a war on two fronts but yeah, we didn't set foot on European (actually African) soil until late the next year. Wikipedia reference

**WhiskeySix** · 08-15-2006, 12:35 PM

here's a good summary: World War II Timeline [Ad*Access]

December 1941, Pearl Harbor.

Over the next three years, major battles in the Pacific took place, with the Japanese navy eventually being destroyed at Leytee Gulf in Oct 1944... though island to island fighting continued until the end of the war in sept. 45

(During this time, we also were sending tons of supplies (and aircraft) to Britain)

Spring 1943, we (Patton) fought through Africa and into Italy.

June 1944, Rome liberated; D-day commences the fight to take back mainland Europe.

September 1944, Paris liberated.

May 1945, Berlin falls to allies.

August 1945, we drop The Bomb.

Sept. 2 1945, V-J day.

Drizzid · 08-15-2006, 12:48 PM

Thanks for the information and clarification Pickle and Whiskey

**Wyzcrak** · 08-15-2006, 12:50 PM

"Pickle and Whiskey" sounds like "whistlin' dixie", and that makes me giggle a bit.

Next time I use that phrase in a game, I'm going to change it up a bit.

"Quit picklin' whiskey and get back to base before we lose it!"

mmmmmmm delicious.

08-15-2006, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	We kicked the Japanese butts ! This is absolute proof that people are nuts. In light of the family friendly forum we have here I won't use the words I would like to. However, the people involved in this are incredibly stupid and insensitive to the vets who fought and died in that war. My grandfather was one of them. PROVIDENCE, R.I. - Church bells rang. Whistles at fire stations and mill factories sounded. People poured into the streets, waving flags and honking car horns. It was Aug. 14, 1945 — the day Americans learned that Japan had surrendered, ending the costliest conflict in human history. "It was pandemonium with happiness," remembered John Lucas, a World War II veteran and executive secretary of the Pawtucket Veterans Council. On Monday, Rhode Island will once again observe the end of World War II, the only state still celebrating Victory Day, commonly referred to as Victory over Japan Day, or V-J Day. Critics say it's discriminatory, and would like to eliminate the holiday or at least remove its reference to Japan. They point out that Rhode Islanders do not celebrate the U.S. victory over Germany, which was defeated three months earlier. "This is a stigma against the Japanese whom we do business with and are allies," said George Lima, a former state representative who worked on a failed attempt to eliminate the holiday in the 1980s. Veterans groups remain committed to the holiday, celebrated on the second Monday of August. "This is the way the veterans feel about it in Rhode Island," said George Panichas, a former legislator who was a gunner on a B-17 bomber during World War II. "They fought against the Japanese, and they just don't forget it." There have been several attempts to change the holiday's name, but each time lawmakers met overwhelming opposition, said state Sen. Rhoda Perry. She introduced bills in 1992, 1994 and 1995 to change the holiday to Rhode Island Veterans Day. A second 1995 bill would have changed it to Peace and Remembrance Day. Perry said she received "vitriolic" mail from veterans. "It was absolutely a no-winner," Perry said. "I did not have support, period." However, the General Assembly passed a 1990 resolution stating that Victory Day is not a day to express satisfaction in the destruction and death caused by nuclear bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. People need the holiday to remember the sacrifices veterans made during the war, said James Brennan, a survivor of the 1942 Bataan Death March in which Japanese soldiers tortured and killed thousands of American and Filipino prisoners. However, Brennan said he does not harbor ill feelings toward the Japanese and does not believe the holiday incites racism or hatred. "July 4 is our national holiday because we defeated England. Do we hate the English? No," he said. "It's the same with V-J Day. We are the ones who won the war." Joe Davis, a spokesman for the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Washington, said he is glad Rhode Island has kept the holiday. "Rhode Island is continuing to celebrate a great victory at a tremendous cost," Davis said, noting the deaths of about 400,000 Americans in World War II. Arkansas is believed to be the last state to drop Victory Day. When the legislature listed official state holidays in 1975, it omitted Victory Day, which it had called World War II Memorial Day, state capital historian David Ware said. The holiday appears to have been omitted without much fuss, Ware said. "What happens over time is that people's memories fade," said Marilyn Zoidis, a curator at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History. "If there's not a strong enough memory to support a holiday, there's no strong reason to keep funding it." That's what some hope will happen in Rhode Island. Mikki Lima, a Japanese-American who runs the Rhode Island Japan Society in Providence, said she is working to educate younger Americans about Japanese culture. If the holiday can't be eliminated, she hopes it can at least be celebrated under a new name because of Victory Day's implicit reference to the victory over Japan. "Someday, this foolish holiday's name will be changed," Lima said. __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

08-15-2006, 11:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 35 Posts: 8,778	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! I hope my state never gives up the VJ day holiday. Not only do I get the day out of work (which I enjoyed!), but it reminds us of the victory achieved in the Pacific campaign of WWII. The US got involved in the European campaign of WWII out of good will (more or less), the Pacific campaign was the result of a direct attack by Japan on US soil. I have no problem with Japan or it's culture and people. But at the same time, I don't see the issue with celebrating the victory in the Pactific campaign of WWII. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

08-15-2006, 11:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,861	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! It all comes back to the use of the Bomb and camp internments of Japanese Americans during the war. Still sore subjects for many. That's probably what has people so emotionally invested in opposing the holiday. __________________

08-15-2006, 11:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,416	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! I can't say I find it stupid that some people find it racist. It seems like it may be a bit unfounded though. The Japanese have a much stronger cultural identity than caucasians. I'm a mix between many European nationalities (British, French, mainly German). You couldn't tell by looking at me though, because I'm an American. Asians have it a bit rougher. They are a visible minority. And as a minority, they can deal with the same amount of racism as blacks and hispanics. The issue here is that it's really about one nations victory over another, but some Japanese Americans still have strong cultural ties to their nation. So, in actuality: we're celebrating curb stomping their nation, not their race. Anyways, my grandfather fought on the European front, but I've always found it weird to annually celebrate a war. July 4th isn't about the war, it's about when we declared ourselves a nation of it's own. We're celebrating our independence, even if it was won (later) with a war. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

08-15-2006, 11:37 AM	#5 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! VJ day is about ending the war/victory over an evil empire/the end of sending our boys to fight a war we didnt start. I see absolutely nothing wrong with celebrating the end of a war. These people should be happy we stopped killing their people and should celebrate the end of that horrific action too. By protesting this holiday these people are severely negating the sacrifice that Americans (Japanese Americans too) paid. This holiday has absolutely nothing to do with racism or race. It has everything to do with a victory over an evil man and his empire. __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

08-15-2006, 11:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
Rick_the_new_guy Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 29 Posts: 1,789	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! I think the name should stay the same. Being a fan of the book, 1984, I get worried that when names change like that. With time the officials may change the exact reasons it is celebrated also. No sir. The celebration is about the Japan War Machine demise. And may humans think about this and research the time period and theater in order to understand it better. Good thread pickle. Rhode Iland rocks. Yes, and so do Puritians. __________________ (PO3) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Member (CPO) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Squad Leader (LCDR) Marcinko_R. (BF2 PR .509) Commander Squad Member pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...ad-leader.html Squad Leader pledge to their team:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...r-platoon.html Commander pledge to their SL:http://www.tacticalgamer.com/battlef...d-leaders.html

08-15-2006, 12:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
Pickle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Land of Fruit and Nuts! Age: 35 Posts: 1,281	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! Japan probably did think that knowing that once they attacked we would be involved on a war on two fronts but yeah, we didn't set foot on European (actually African) soil until late the next year. Wikipedia reference __________________ "Umm Deputy these aren't my pants" - Common alarm cry of the North American Crackhead [tg-c1][ma-c1][defense]

08-15-2006, 12:35 PM	#13 (permalink)
WhiskeySix Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gillette Stadium, Section 309, Row 12, Seat 24 Age: 32 Posts: 7,719	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! here's a good summary: World War II Timeline [Ad*Access] December 1941, Pearl Harbor. Over the next three years, major battles in the Pacific took place, with the Japanese navy eventually being destroyed at Leytee Gulf in Oct 1944... though island to island fighting continued until the end of the war in sept. 45 (During this time, we also were sending tons of supplies (and aircraft) to Britain) Spring 1943, we (Patton) fought through Africa and into Italy. June 1944, Rome liberated; D-day commences the fight to take back mainland Europe. September 1944, Paris liberated. May 1945, Berlin falls to allies. August 1945, we drop The Bomb. Sept. 2 1945, V-J day. __________________

08-15-2006, 12:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
Drizzid Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37 Posts: 2,890	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! Thanks for the information and clarification Pickle and Whiskey __________________ TG-Drizzid Yifios Phoenix (87:55) Marble colony Danetia Menzo (86:55) Wine ColonyII Rayiatia Paradise (87:54) Sulfur

08-15-2006, 12:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,132	Re: I am glad we kicked the Japs butts!! "Pickle and Whiskey" sounds like "whistlin' dixie", and that makes me giggle a bit. Next time I use that phrase in a game, I'm going to change it up a bit. "Quit picklin' whiskey and get back to base before we lose it!" mmmmmmm delicious. __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

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