Evolution vs Creationism - Page 11

**Pokerface** · 07-28-2004, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

pokerface contrary to your beliefs i am not ignorant to the bible, and i have read the bible,

it seems to me i surpirse you because i talk about its content?

No, it surprises me that you are taking the content more literally than most Christians do. It's been a long-ass time since the stubborn son got stoned as per Deuteronomy, but you're talking as if because it's printed there that Chirstians take it as gospel, but they don't. They take the Gospel as gospel, y'know?

The Bible is a historical document; a moving picture of a people, and the evolutions of the morality are apparent. Contradictions exist only because the rules are printed in the same book, not because they were in place at the same time.

**DudeMan** · 07-28-2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

No, it surprises me that you are taking the content more literally than most Christians do. It's been a long-ass time since the stubborn son got stoned as per Deuteronomy, but you're talking as if because it's printed there that Chirstians take it as gospel, but they don't. They take the Gospel as gospel, y'know?

The Bible is a historical document; a moving picture of a people, and the evolutions of the morality are apparent. Contradictions exist only because the rules are printed in the same book, not because they were in place at the same time.

right but you can deny that christiansd look to the bilbel for guidence, and whether or not it has them at different time frames, is there not still a conflict, yes there is.

**Pokerface** · 07-28-2004, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

in one swoop you have labled me mis guided and everyother personmisguided because we do not believe in a higher power or spirituality. that is simply not true, i dont believe in a higher power but i believe in living my life in a morally good and poleasurable way, i believe in doing whatever makes me happy, does this mean i am misguided no, not at all.

No, I labelled you "Unguided". You can get to the top of the mountain without a sherpa, no doubt, but having a sherpa sure does help.
"Misguided" would be trying to get to the top of the mountain with a map of the star's homes in L.A.

**DudeMan** · 07-28-2004, 11:59 PM

well to be frank i still think that is a pile of horse beep, i really dont like you calling me unguided because i dont believe in god. that is a little arrogant, you seem to place yourself higher than i because you have a beliefe in some spiritual plain.

that is an arrogant point of view in my opinion.

i live by my countries laws, my own morals, and whatever makes me happy. i dont think there is another life afer this, so me bieing content is the ambition i have in this life. that is not unguided, this ambition means i have goals to succeed academically, and be a provider for my family (when i get one)

AND IF YOU HAVE GOALS IN YOUR LIFE THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY, THEN HOW CAN YUO SAY SOMEONE IS UNGUIDED.

**luna** · 07-29-2004, 12:05 AM

Take it as a compliment, dudeman! He is saying you are unguided. Personally, I would take that to mean that I create my own path, instead of following in another's. That's a pretty substantial accomplishment.

**Pokerface** · 07-29-2004, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fait_Maker

Declared it, would be my choice. I don't honor my father because he never honored me. He left when I was 9 and is generally a piece of ****. Am I immoral? Would it be immoral of me to have an infidelity if my wife did it to me? Eye for an eye and all that... Truth is subjective. What may be true from your viewpoint isn't necessarily the truth from mine. You can tell me the truth, as you know it, and still be telling me a falsehood.

OK, you've befuddled me now.
God declared truth as opposed to created it, yes? So the truth was there before somehow, correct? And then you say truth is subjective?

And separately: truth is not subjective. You and I may have different sides to a story, and neither one might be truth. To BE truth, truth has to be objective.

**Pokerface** · 07-29-2004, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

right but you can deny that christiansd look to the bilbel for guidence, and whether or not it has them at different time frames, is there not still a conflict, yes there is.

A conflict that Christians seem to have reconciled, but you have not.

Fait_Maker · 07-29-2004, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

Take it as a compliment, dudeman! He is saying you are unguided. Personally, I would take that to mean that I create my own path, instead of following in another's. That's a pretty substantial accomplishment.

Agreed.... And remember this from the Wiccan Rede... "An it harm none, do what you will."

**Wyzcrak** · 07-29-2004, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

you offer no actual discussion so far to this thread

This is incorrect.

Your caps lock key is sticking again.

**CingularDuality** · 07-29-2004, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

No, I labelled you "Unguided". You can get to the top of the mountain without a sherpa, no doubt, but having a sherpa sure does help.
"Misguided" would be trying to get to the top of the mountain with a map of the star's homes in L.A.

I guide myself. In the past (and still occasionally) my parents guided me. Now my wife often guides me. And for the last few years my son has guided me more than I ever thought he would...

Fait_Maker · 07-29-2004, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

OK, you've befuddled me now.
God declared truth as opposed to created it, yes? So the truth was there before somehow, correct? And then you say truth is subjective?

And separately: truth is not subjective. You and I may have different sides to a story, and neither one might be truth. To BE truth, truth has to be objective.

From your storybook, yes.. declared what was really already there. But since I really don't believe in a god... this is all in theory, call it an academic discussion....

Truth is both objective and subjective. It really depends on who's doing the viewing. The sky really isn't blue, but your eyes tell you different.

Fait_Maker · 07-29-2004, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

I guide myself. In the past (and still occasionally) my parents guided me. Now my wife often guides me. And for the last few years my son has guided me more than I ever thought he would...

Couple of things popped up reading this...

Ventura commented that "religion is a crutch" and I've said that before on my website. I think people use religion to get by and I'm scared for them when that religion fails them. I like my life and my strenght. I like that I, too, guide myself and rely on myself. When I fail, the fault comes to me. When I triump, it does as well. Don't anyone take offense though. If it see's you through... I'm glad religion was there for you. Whatever it takes to make it through life.

The other thing is... how many of you are in the first religion you ever looked into? Have you ever looked to see if another fit? Isn't it amazing how many people get the right religion on the first shot? I appreciate more my friend who searched for 25 years before he found Buddhism. He finally found something that felt right to him after trying on several other things. He didn't adopt someone else's religion.. He found the truth, from his view.

**=DdogG=** · 07-29-2004, 01:54 AM

again, my points are the following.:

it is not a higher power that has failed. Humans have decided they do not need a deity. and those that do, for the most part, want to shape him to be thier idea of what God should be. If you have a proof that this is not as viable as any scientific theory presented thus far, please, help me follow that logic.

I personally believe that God is Love. the bible states this through everything. The bible has instruction for any and every situation. most of the time, the bible is quoted incorrectly, or the meaning of stories is misinterpreted. so even without believing in God, the bible offers a style of life to strive for that is without reproach, and we should all want to live such a life. christian or not.

as for penguins and evolution.... there was nothing gained from this. the feather changed and the wing withered. nothing grew to make this happen. this is not really "evolution" it is de-evolution. find a scientifically proven instance of an animal growing as a species a new organ or appendage for reasons of better suitability and we will discuss it. any "evolution" that changes existing features (a white butterfly instead of a brown one surviving in england is an example of change) or loosing a part (deep ocean fish loosing eyes because blind fish were just as likely to survive as sighted ones) is de-evolution and therefore not supportive of a human coming from seascum. I see no way that life just happened from nothing. and I see now way that an organism as complex as humans came from omeba. if it just happened one day that some chemicals came together and made life, then why can it not be recreated in a lab? everything in the bible has explaination in scientific terms except for life. a rainbow. lame walking, blind seeing, david slaying goliath, etc.. all have some way to reason them away or prove that it probably happened like this or that..... no scientist has made chemicals come to life. it seems that an accident would be easy to recreate in a lab with enough work. why has no one succeeded here? you would think evolutionists would want irrefutable proof that it is possible.

**=DdogG=** · 07-29-2004, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fait_Maker

Couple of things popped up reading this...

Ventura commented that "religion is a crutch" and I've said that before on my website. I think people use religion to get by and I'm scared for them when that religion fails them. I like my life and my strenght. I like that I, too, guide myself and rely on myself. When I fail, the fault comes to me. When I triump, it does as well. Don't anyone take offense though. If it see's you through... I'm glad religion was there for you. Whatever it takes to make it through life.

The other thing is... how many of you are in the first religion you ever looked into? Have you ever looked to see if another fit? Isn't it amazing how many people get the right religion on the first shot? I appreciate more my friend who searched for 25 years before he found Buddhism. He finally found something that felt right to him after trying on several other things. He didn't adopt someone else's religion.. He found the truth, from his view.

I have researched most other religions. christianity is the only one that makes sense to me. every other religion puts the burden of salvation on us. what could you possibly do to earn salvation a supreme being? what could an ant do to earn salvation you? answer. nothing. salvation is offered by God, or by you to the ant. you feel pity for the ant on some level and grant it life or kill it. It can do nothing to earn life. now aply this to a Perfect God of love and mercy. He gave a way to get out of death. muslims must die in a jihad for thier God to get to heaven. Christians had thier God die for them. no sacrifice a human can make is worthy enough for a God. only a God can give a sacrifice worthy enough.

like I said, humans pervert God and what he is. he has nothing to prove to us.

again I make statements through the lens of christiaity, so please forgive my digression into a more religious tone. God needs no one or nothing to defend him. I am not trying to do this either. I hope however, that possibly someone will see a little truth in what I say.

Fait_Maker · 07-29-2004, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DdogG=

it is not a higher power that has failed. Humans have decided they do not need a deity. and those that do, for the most part, want to shape him to be thier idea of what God should be. If you have a proof that this is not as viable as any scientific theory presented thus far, please, help me follow that logic.

No point here to continue on this one.. You will continue to see it apart from what I see and that's just how it's going to be.

Quote:

I personally believe that God is Love. the bible states this through everything. The bible has instruction for any and every situation. most of the time, the bible is quoted incorrectly, or the meaning of stories is misinterpreted. so even without believing in God, the bible offers a style of life to strive for that is without reproach, and we should all want to live such a life. christian or not.

Remember, you can't take the Bible out of context. You must see it for the whole that it is. I find it fascinating that people want me to disregard the old testimony because of the new as if it doesn't matter anymore. If the old doesn't bear relevance, why is it still printed? If it does bear relevance, I would point at your loving merciful god and show you that in the old testament, he was a tyrant who killed anyone that he pleased because they CHOSE something that disagreed with him. What good is free will if you are just going to be destroyed for it?

Quote:

as for penguins and evolution.... there was nothing gained from this. the feather changed and the wing withered. nothing grew to make this happen. this is not really "evolution" it is de-evolution. find a scientifically proven instance of an animal growing as a species a new organ or appendage for reasons of better suitability and we will discuss it. any "evolution" that changes existing features (a white butterfly instead of a brown one surviving in england is an example of change) or loosing a part (deep ocean fish loosing eyes because blind fish were just as likely to survive as sighted ones) is de-evolution and therefore not supportive of a human coming from seascum. I see no way that life just happened from nothing. and I see now way that an organism as complex as humans came from omeba. if it just happened one day that some chemicals came together and made life, then why can it not be recreated in a lab? everything in the bible has explaination in scientific terms except for life. a rainbow. lame walking, blind seeing, david slaying goliath, etc.. all have some way to reason them away or prove that it probably happened like this or that..... no scientist has made chemicals come to life. it seems that an accident would be easy to recreate in a lab with enough work. why has no one succeeded here? you would think evolutionists would want irrefutable proof that it is possible.

I'm not a scientist so I couldn't possibly hope to argue this with you. How is it that because science hasn't come up with ALL the answers yet that it is wrong? It hasn't come up with the ability to create life. Maybe in another 50 years? 100, 200? You're religion has had 2000 years. Science is really a relatively new "religion".

Quite honestly, I could care less about evolution because I don't think we can ever *know* how it all started. Everything is just a guess since nobody was there. Why worry about things you can't know. Look to the future.

07-28-2004, 11:59 PM	#154 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: Evolution vs Creationism well to be frank i still think that is a pile of horse beep, i really dont like you calling me unguided because i dont believe in god. that is a little arrogant, you seem to place yourself higher than i because you have a beliefe in some spiritual plain. that is an arrogant point of view in my opinion. i live by my countries laws, my own morals, and whatever makes me happy. i dont think there is another life afer this, so me bieing content is the ambition i have in this life. that is not unguided, this ambition means i have goals to succeed academically, and be a provider for my family (when i get one) AND IF YOU HAVE GOALS IN YOUR LIFE THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY, THEN HOW CAN YUO SAY SOMEONE IS UNGUIDED. __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

07-29-2004, 12:05 AM	#155 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	Re: Evolution vs Creationism Take it as a compliment, dudeman! He is saying you are unguided. Personally, I would take that to mean that I create my own path, instead of following in another's. That's a pretty substantial accomplishment. __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

07-29-2004, 01:54 AM	#163 (permalink)
=DdogG= Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ennis, TX Age: 31 Posts: 1,773	Re: Evolution vs Creationism again, my points are the following.: it is not a higher power that has failed. Humans have decided they do not need a deity. and those that do, for the most part, want to shape him to be thier idea of what God should be. If you have a proof that this is not as viable as any scientific theory presented thus far, please, help me follow that logic. I personally believe that God is Love. the bible states this through everything. The bible has instruction for any and every situation. most of the time, the bible is quoted incorrectly, or the meaning of stories is misinterpreted. so even without believing in God, the bible offers a style of life to strive for that is without reproach, and we should all want to live such a life. christian or not. as for penguins and evolution.... there was nothing gained from this. the feather changed and the wing withered. nothing grew to make this happen. this is not really "evolution" it is de-evolution. find a scientifically proven instance of an animal growing as a species a new organ or appendage for reasons of better suitability and we will discuss it. any "evolution" that changes existing features (a white butterfly instead of a brown one surviving in england is an example of change) or loosing a part (deep ocean fish loosing eyes because blind fish were just as likely to survive as sighted ones) is de-evolution and therefore not supportive of a human coming from seascum. I see no way that life just happened from nothing. and I see now way that an organism as complex as humans came from omeba. if it just happened one day that some chemicals came together and made life, then why can it not be recreated in a lab? everything in the bible has explaination in scientific terms except for life. a rainbow. lame walking, blind seeing, david slaying goliath, etc.. all have some way to reason them away or prove that it probably happened like this or that..... no scientist has made chemicals come to life. it seems that an accident would be easy to recreate in a lab with enough work. why has no one succeeded here? you would think evolutionists would want irrefutable proof that it is possible. __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

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