wickerman

For me, at least there is proof that evolution happens. All a "superior deity" is - to me - is a myth created to explain things that had/have yet to be explained. The only "proof" offered for a deity is esoteric - either a book claiming to be inspired by the deity stating the existance of the deity ("begging the question" or "circular reasoning") or a "feeling" or some type of mystical inspiration - not real evidence at all.

Don't get me wrong, if those things "do it" for you and help you live a good life where you don't bother anyone else then go for it. I don't look down on that.

On the other hand, if a person is attempting to force their chosen belief system on me they can go jump in a lake.


Discussions such as this are interesting, especially when kept civil, but I doubt they do much to sway anyone's opinion (or even should). You should definitely not base your religious belief (or lack thereof) on something someone tells you. Research it for yourself and make your own determination.

IceCold

It's all about evidence for me. Tangible facts point to evolution being true. There is no tangible evidence that supports the existence of a god, just other people telling you that it is so... I understand that some of you feel some sort of "relationship" with a higher power that can't be explained scientifically. That's great, but I have never felt any such thing and I just can't grasp that concept. Maybe someday I will, but until then, I'll continue to lump god in with Santa and the easter bunny.

Y'know, sometimes I'm jealous of people that earnestly believe in god. It would make my life easier, that's for sure...

Pokerface

The Old Testament is OLD for a reason. Because there's a NEW one. I'll even go so far as to say a BETTER one.

My argument is that the people most against Christians seem to think that the entire Bible is carve-it-in-your-forehead truth, when it's not.

Instead of reading some form of namecalling into my posts, address them, because there IS an issue there. You think I'm calling you ignorant? Failing to address the issues I'm raising doesn't disprove that.

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wickerman

What about the issues I raised in my post dealing with homosexuality and the picking and choosing of which verses are no longer applicable? I've yet to hear a good answer why it's ok to pick and choose verses from the bible to use to support a position while completely ignoring others that don't support other positions/new ideas.

No, I see the bible as a carve-it-as-you-like-it "truth". Just open it up, find something that seems to support your position, and grasp on tightly.

Mot73

I hear both of you Ice and Wicker....but I guess I don't understand the concept that evolution is the more plausable answer. Frankly...the term evolution itself really is saying that "something that has been" is now something different. Ok..I can buy that to a degree. The entire topic of creation vs evolution doesn't even make much logical sense as "creation" implies something coming into being that didn't previously exist...its a beginning.

why do we compare the two?

How did "life" in whatever form start? THAT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IS THE QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!! No one has ANY tangible proof!!!!!!

Certainly thinking that evolution can only occur in the absence of God is silly thinking and conversely the presense of God should never rule out some form of evolution.

Who started this thread anyway...sheesh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nightfire

i believe in creation and i have 2 direct reasons:

1) the Bible says so

2) let's say that evolution DID happen, if you really think about it, it all goes back to the point where something has to be "created in the first place".....let's say that bacteria was the first thing to be on earth. well, there's got to be "something" that created that bacteria before it can even set foot on earth. same thing with space...space doesn't start off as space, something's got to create THAT space.

well, that's it for now, i believe in creation.

USN_Squid

Here's an interesting slightly OT article. Believing in Hell has its benefits.

Doesn't believing in Hell necessitate believing in Heaven and hence God?

__________________

=DdogG=

this is probably up there with the most inflamatory comments in this thread, and coming from a moderator, this is even more troubling.

I do not see how you can see a merciless God in the old testament if you look at the entire work. were there times of judgement? you bet. but look at the story of Jonah. Nineva was wicked and was to be destroyed. God wanted to give them another chance, as he did everyone. Jonah was mad cause God didnt destroy them.

God wanted on many occasions to kill the Isrealites. He started to on several occasions because of thier wickedness and REPEATED rebellions. He gave the egyptians 7 chances to let the Isrealites go.

God's tyranny in the old testament is because of a people that refused to listen.

enough of the biblical debate though. no one seems to want to admit that science requires just as much faith as religion. I have no problem with your beliefs, why do you have a problem with mine?
a christian didnt start this thread. so who wont let who live in peace here? christain values are being attacked here. are we not allowed defend our beliefs?

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Mot73

I've tried to point this out....several times....or at least get this concept to be considered...but I guess I've failed at that.

As others have said...I to have enjoyed the thread and it has remained relatively adult.

I do respect each of you even though some of you are blinded foooools who burn in hell for eternity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That last statement was a joke btw!!!!!!!!!! hence the ----->

Sincerely
Mot

DudeMan

well no it is infact what you were calling, me, but i also inplore that you find evidence that i have said the bible was a mold of what a christian has to follow as the law to the last full stop.

i havernt, therefore when you make the assumption that it must be what i mean, you are incorrect.

the fact is that ok old or new, does every christian follow everything in the new and noothing in the old. this is a possibility but it is also wrong by some, if not many standards, therefore the conflict is aparant in the teachings of the bible.

what worries me more i suppose, it if you are following the new testiment, whos interpretation is it of what god meant, and why should i even credit them. while it may be logical, the old testiment was used for hundreds of years.

you see i never once said that christians are going to follow the bible to the letter, but it is this mistical guidence you talk about that makes them better than the pathless unguided non believers ( ) and how can you take guidence from a rehash of a rehash of what someone alledgedly said.

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DudeMan

well mot, and ddogg you say it therefore it must be true. noone is admitting it because as other has illustrated including myself at one point i do not believe it is the case. to just ignore other points of view and try to attack them but saying they wont admit it, is not a good argument.

ok its your opinion, and obviously why you may believe in god, but just because you say it takes that much faith dont mean it is true. i dont think it does at all.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

Mot73

We take many forms of ancient literature and don't questions its authenticity. As I have learned...note.."learned" the bible has more "copies closer to the orginal writings" than any other of our cultures respected pieces of literature. Therefore I can hold some credence that what is there today is at least as close to what was originally written than anythings else.

That establishes enough of a solid base to consider the book valid. Then once I can agree to that, its looking at the content so see if it seems devine..and it again passes that test to me.

One could then take the events found within the book and research them further for parallels in other places...to again substantiate its content. If you can get past those tests...which most of us aren't literate enough to do....taking the translated versions back to their original text and learning the culture from which they were written, then you can look for the devine things...like prophecies and other miracles that are Godly in nature.

Thats how it works for me anyhow. Yes...to an extent...I DO rely on the work of others to help me understand....I'll not appoligise for that and it doesn't lessen the credibility to me.

All that then its the 'personal' relationship with God that I experience that brings it all together and leaves no doubt in my mind...."my mind".

again..thats me.

Mot73

Respectfully,
So are you saying you know with tangable proof how the existence of life began? or that science has tangable proof?

sorry..don't mean disrepect..just trying to understand.

Wyzcrak

The reason you're concerned about seeming disrespectful is because your questions seem silly, when in fact the reasons your questions are silly is because that which motivated the questions is what truely lacks base.

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=DdogG=

what? I have in no way in any post said that my way is fact and yours is bunk. I have offered what I felt to be valid points and they have been largely washed over and not considered. I have no need to make you believe in my God to make him any more real to me. You have no need to make me believe in yours either. While I personally dissagree with a lot of the content in this thread, I have no desire to shove my faith on the unwilling. I truly do not see where you get the idea that your above statement is my point of view. I simply want to hear a rebuttle on my points, and have yet to see one I find credible. I dont see how I am attacking your point of view. I truly am not trying to be inflamatory, I honestly want to see someone show me why science does not require the faith that religion does. where is the attack in this?

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