Evolution vs Creationism - Page 9

**DudeMan** · 07-28-2004, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

That "babbling" was in response to being asked why I believe in "God". (see my previous post for the reason "God" gets quotes this time around)

Science can go ahead and quantify emotion all it wants. The fact that we as humans can quantify something so ephemeral is just another reason to believe in a higher power for me. The rotation of an electron, the Krebs cycle for getting energy to body cells, the fact an ant can lift a Volkswagon over its head, science has plenty of tangible reasons in it too, as to why I think God exists.

Maybe it's the romantic in my, but inspiring my sense of awe and wonder gets my God-crank turning.

well all i can say to you is i fundementally disagree,

i believe it is short sighted and a lazy response to why things happen, but its your belief, and who am i to question that. all i can do it portray my belief and pcik holes where it doesnt make sense.

**Pokerface** · 07-28-2004, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

whats your point you argue circular logic all the time you say nothing to disprove and expect others to ingest your suggestion.

I'm going to need some examples of my circular logic, because I don't see them.

Quote:

no it is true that this has not happened but apart from the bible who said jesus did infact resurect, a small amount of his fanatical followers.

Wait, you mean his miraculous resurrection WASN'T documented by the people who killed him for his views against the ruling regime?!? Only by the people who weren't interested in quashing his teachings?!? The dickens you say!

Quote:

i am not saying jesus didnt resurect, i am sayng i dont believe it.

Not believing something IS actually negating the possibility of that situation.

You want words put in your mouth? OK, here's an alternative version of your last sentence, with the double negative condensed into its positive formation.
"I am saying Jesus did resurrect, and I am saying that I don't believe it."

Do you see my point about belief negating the possibility of fact? Replace the first part of the sentence with anything, and it's just as absurd.
"I assert this as fact, and I don't believe it."

**DudeMan** · 07-28-2004, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

I'm going to need some examples of my circular logic, because I don't see them.

Wait, you mean his miraculous resurrection WASN'T documented by the people who killed him for his views against the ruling regime?!? Only by the people who weren't interested in quashing his teachings?!? The dickens you say!

Not believing something IS actually negating the possibility of that situation.

You want words put in your mouth? OK, here's an alternative version of your last sentence, with the double negative condensed into its positive formation.
"I am saying Jesus did resurrect, and I am saying that I don't believe it."

Do you see my point about belief negating the possibility of fact? Replace the first part of the sentence with anything, and it's just as absurd.
"I assert this as fact, and I don't believe it."

actually you are wrong,

i am not saying, that he didnt resurect, i dont know this for sure, there is not double negative making a posotive in this statement.

the next statement that i dont believe it, well that can be constured as saying infact i am saying he didnt resurect, but as i have said before, i am not sayong god isnt ther, but i dont have sufficient prrof to convince me that he does.

you see i am not so nieve to think that just because i believe something it must be right, my beliefs are open to the same critisism as anyone elses,

sorry you are worng about my speech pokerface.

**Wyzcrak** · 07-28-2004, 05:41 PM

I'm still waiting for Dudeman's examples of Poker's circular logic.

*sits back and grabs popcorn*

**Pokerface** · 07-28-2004, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

oh and by the way, turn the other cheek, an eye for an eye,

there are many contradictions in the bible that say one thing then another,

I find HILARIOUS that you hold more stock in the depiction of truth in the Bibile than I do.

The evolution of morality is readily apparent, culminatiing in Jesus in the Gospels, and YOU'RE the one bible thumping that the Old Testament passages on the destruction of pagans is Christian truth.

Quote:

and like it or not, although it isnt as aparant these days the governemnt still looks for confirmation from the church to see if the war is backed by the church.

Because:
1) Religious groups donate money to people who swing their way, and
2) A more-than-fair number of people at least tip their hat to religious leaders, even if they don't actively follow the religious doctrines.

Quote:

and many many wars ion the past have been sanctioned buy bishops and priests.

And many popes either bought the position or were born into it. People clinging to past actions loosely justified as opposed to the actual teaching has yet to impress me.

Quote:

i cant remember who has already said this but religion does seperate and divide peoples, not unite them. it would be arrogant of me to expect the worrld to hold the same values as me.

Religions separate. A higher purpose can unite.
cf. Dogma.
"It doesn't matter so much what you have faith in, but that you have faith,"
"Ideas are better than beliefs. You can always change an idea, but it's a lot harder to change a belief."

I knew that movie could get worked in somewhere.

IceCold · 07-28-2004, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DdogG=

the futility of this thread is amazing.

all five sides of this debate argue about why the beliefs of the other are wrong.

a side believing in a deity telling another that science is fallable..... well duh.

a side believing in science telling another that religion is fallable..... well duh.

honestly, this whole debate is based on the capability of a human mind. Your belief in a God does not make him real. Your disbelief does not make him vanish.

The simple fact is, that if God truly is, then he has no need to prove himself worthy to humans. Do you feel the need to talk to, justify yourself, manifest tangible, explainable events to a colony of ants? why would you. even if they were yours and you were watching over them, there is no reason for you to give one ant more dirt for his home? My point is, that trying to ask why God does not talk to people..... there are four answers. 1) there is no God. 2) it would be futile to try to get a mere human to understand. 3) he does, just not to you. 4) he does, you just arent listening.

some people see God talking to them in an unexpected favorable outcome. some people see God talking to them in the beauty the is in this world. Some people dont see anything. Who are you to say that God does or does not exist anyway? no one on this earth has definitive proof either way. a belief in God takes just that. but a belief in the theories of evolution also require the same thing. unfortunately, no one can argue a belief, because there in no proof. everyone here has convictions about thier beliefs, and no one here is doing any good by trying to debate them.

I personally have a strong belief in God. I see things through that belief, and I enjoy my life. when this life is over, if I am right, I will be rewarded. If I am wrong, I have lost nothing. what happens if you are wrong?

Best post in this thread so far. Very well said.

And as to the last paragraph, well, god's supposed to be merciful and all knowing, right? If he exists as the bible says, he wouldn't damn me for my logical thoughts and skepticism without first proving his existence in some way.

**luna** · 07-28-2004, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Not believing something IS actually negating the possibility of that situation.

You want words put in your mouth? OK, here's an alternative version of your last sentence, with the double negative condensed into its positive formation.
"I am saying Jesus did resurrect, and I am saying that I don't believe it."

Here, lemmie give this one a whirl. I think what Dudeman is saying is that although it is a possibility that Jesus ressurected, there is not enough proof provided for him to personally be convinced that it is a fact.

That make sense?

IceCold · 07-28-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

Here, lemmie give this one a whirl. I think what Dudeman is saying is that although it is a possibility that Jesus ressurected, there is not enough proof provided for him to personally be convinced that it is a fact.

That make sense?

Yeah, I was going to try to clarify this as well. I don't know that god exists. It can't be proven that he does or does not exist. Given this fact, I don't believe that he exists. I'm not saying that he can't exist or that he doesn't exist. I'm saying that I simply haven't seen any evidence that could possibly convince me that there is a higher power. You'll never hear me say that there is no possibility of a god existing.

This is not contradictory, Pokerface.

**Pokerface** · 07-28-2004, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

actually you are wrong,

i am not saying, that he didnt resurect, i dont know this for sure, there is not double negative making a posotive in this statement.

"I am NOT saying that he did NOT resurrect."
Hate to break it to you, but those cancel.

The good news is, perhaps we're just arguing semantics as opposed to God. Would this statement suit better?
"Jesus may have risen from the dead. I do not believe that he did so."

**luna** · 07-28-2004, 06:23 PM

Here's another translation:

Dudeman: "Look, if God decides to invite me for a cup of tea and we play a few games of JO together, I'll totally believe he exists. Until he provides me with something obvious and convincing, I'll stick with believing that he likely does not exist."

How was that, Dudeman?

**Wyzcrak** · 07-28-2004, 06:26 PM

Why believe the JO exists?

**Wyzcrak** · 07-28-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

Here's another translation:

Dudeman: "I'll stick with believing that he likely does not exist."

I don't think Dudeman ever stated his belief in His non-existance.

IceCold · 07-28-2004, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

"I am NOT saying that he did NOT resurrect."
Hate to break it to you, but those cancel.

Semantics. Dudeman used his double negative properly. They do NOT just "cancel" without changing the meaning of his statement. Just because something is not a negative doesn't mean it is a positive.

Geisha · 07-28-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Actually, life was recently created from entirely inorganic compounds: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/.../note14ref.asp

Hey, neat!! I'm going to print that out for Greg's stack of articles for Myria and Veronica next time they bring over a Christian World pamphlet. Greg says conversion is a two-way street.

As long as he's having fun.

I'm so "live and let live" that I really don't think about any of this stuff unless directly questioned. I don't actively disbelieve in a Creator, I just don't really care. There are so many explicable things to take up my time in my life - happy and unhappy - elections, house-training my new puppy, learning new things to keep my job from getting boring, being a generically good and generous person to my friends and neighbors - that inexplicable things just don't seem worth my time except in a vaguely academic sense. I'd rather spend time exploring ways to be a good person than argue about why I should be a good person or whether some higher power is holding up a tally card and taking notes.

I tried to answer _Benny's question from what I've been told by people who do believe, and I'm thanking Cing for adding something to my husband's repertoire. I'll admit to some idle curiosity, but no real active desire to either find an answer myself or change anyone else's minds. Good job, phyllis, on filling in some of the major points; whether anyone agrees with them or not, I believe THAT is what _Benny was asking for, and not just arguments about the definition of "Faith."

Cheers, everyone!

Fait_Maker · 07-28-2004, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by +Mot73+

Seems the choice to NOT believe in God should He exist, may have a consequence....and therefore "Could" cost dearly in a life after, should one exist.

Even believing in God could have its consequences of a rather unfavorable sort, should the Bible be true, "IF" there isn't a repentance and acceptance of Him as a saviour.

"let the flaming begin"..no pun intended

and no...I have no concrete infallable proof.

I wrote this several years ago and it's still relevant.... I was asked.......

"Wouldn't you rather believe that there is a God and you can go to heaven?"

While that thought might make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, I am a realist. I would also like to think that everyone who reads this will be overwhelmed with my intellect and want to send me lots of money. Again, I am a realist and that's not going happen. Wouldn't you rather believe in Santa Claus? I would love to think that some old man is going to bring me what I want for christmas, because I was good. This question falls under what is known as Pascal's Wager, which basically is stated as this:

"Believe in God and die. If he exists, you are in heaven. If he doesn't, you lose nothing. Don't believe in God and die. He exists, you go to hell. If he doesn't exist, you lose nothing."

If you believe in god, how can you be sure which god to believe in? What if you choose the wrong god? If you believe in God and he doesn't exist, the thing you have lost is time and the life you spent worshipping something that didn't exist. The question is this. Is believing in a god because of a wager truly believing? Secondly, can you believe in something simply because you think you need to? Wouldn't you still disbelieve in the back of your mind? Beliefs are not about what you will to be so. They are about what your reason tells you is real.

Enough said.

07-28-2004, 05:41 PM	#124 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Evolution vs Creationism I'm still waiting for Dudeman's examples of Poker's circular logic. sits back and grabs popcorn __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

07-28-2004, 06:23 PM	#130 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	Re: Evolution vs Creationism Here's another translation: Dudeman: "Look, if God decides to invite me for a cup of tea and we play a few games of JO together, I'll totally believe he exists. Until he provides me with something obvious and convincing, I'll stick with believing that he likely does not exist." How was that, Dudeman? __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

07-28-2004, 06:26 PM	#131 (permalink)
Wyzcrak Join Date: May 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 14,148	Re: Evolution vs Creationism Why believe the JO exists? __________________ Steam Community? Add me. \| Join #tacticalgamer \| Search Results Legend \| New Posts Forum Filter \| Postbox Toggle \| Live Thread Review \| One Line Results \| Free Remote, Encrypted Backup Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns. Apophis: I haven't seen anyone say that SM's are better than non-SMs. Nordbomber: This is THE first server I've seen where either side can comeback from out of seemingly nowhere with the right teamwork. en4rcment: I have NEVER experienced the type of gameplay that I have found here. Nightly I am amazed at the personalities and gaming talent. Root: Welcome to TG. Feel free to punctuate your sentences correctly. Monkerz: Its gonna take all my skills to beat those boys off in the future.

Sponsored links

Sponsored links

Sponsored links