Benny_

I'll start by saying, that you are all welcome to believe in who/whatever you like with regard to religion, each to their own., it doesn't change my opinion about anyone here, but...

Can anyone present me a good argument as to why I should believe in a god? Evolution is so strongly supported scientifically, genetic research shows a huge link down the age to African Eve, the river of DNA flows on.

Surely no-one is this day and age believes in Adam and Eve, do they?

I've posted this in dmw as well, but I figured I'd ask here too...flame suit on.

CingularDuality

Well, there are a lot of "evolutionary christians" that believe in both...

I'm always shocked and saddened when talking to people that say that they don't need to read any of the books on evolution because they've read the only book that counts and they already know the truth.

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leejo

Benny, do whatever you want. If you're so smart, you'll figure it out.

Mot73

If we've evolved from apes...why are there still apes ???

I guess it gets back to the beginning....in the beginning there was....well....God? or something else to "kickstart" the evolution super highway?

Either way...some faith is required to believe....I can't be convinced that science can prove the "real and true" beginning of life...in whatever form it took.

But thats just me.

There's always the "big bang" theory...the only "big bang" in the history of the universe that actually brought "order" and not chaos. That one is a little hard to swallow. Ever throw a frag in whatever game you play and see things fall "together"?

Just believe what you believe because you yourself deep in your soul know it to be true, not because someone wrote it or said something somewhere along the line that struck a harmoneous chord with you.

Its good your questioning why we're here and how we got here. If you really think about it, that may be a directional arrow to follow. "why do you care, what is it thats with in you that causes you to ponder such things?"

Tempus

Believing in God does not mean you have to believe in creationism.

Believing in God does not mean you have to believe in Christianity.

Believing in God is not something that is going to come from a message board.

Benny_

OK gents, I wasn't really asking for direction, I'm more interested in understanding other peoples views, not to berate, belittle or insult anyone, but as I find creationism a difficult concept to give any weight to.

I'm not sure how to take your comment Leej, other than it seems defensive, or was it just a 'nothing' post.

I can certainly see Tempus' point, and also that there must have been something to start the Big Bang, which is what I assumed everyone accepted now, or am I wrong.
I think perhaps mixing the God bit in was wrong, as they aren't mutually exclusive, perhaps I should stuck to creationism....

wickerman

[insert any religion]
couldn't resist

wickerman

You're making an assumption that all evolution began at the same time when (as far as my reading) it is a series of ongoing events. Humans aren't the end result of evolution either, it is quite arrogant to assume that everything was created and directed towards our existance at this point in time. We will continue to evolve as well and if we don't burn the planet up in a million years we'll be different than we are now.

Evolution didn't happen and then stop. It's ongoing. There are apes because their evolutionary path was different from ours in some way.

leejo

Sorry Benny. Your question seemed more than a little slanted to me when you mixed in the "why should I believe in God" as in, why would an intelligent person believe in God?

As far as Creationism vs. Evolution goes, personally, I don't see them as mutually exclusive. It's more like watching how our understanding of how the universe as a mechanical thing works. First apples fell to the earth because Aristotle said they were made of the right element, then Newton explained Gravity, then Einstein refined our understanding of gravity, then Bohr et. al. refined our understanding even further. In the beginning, God created quarks and muons and mesons and the strong force and the weak force.....YAWN.

As far as how I regard people who insist that evolution is wrong, remember that both creationism and evolution are theories in the same sense that Aristotle's understanding of how the universe works was just a theory and a terribly flawed one at that. Still, his theories permeated Western thought for a thousand years. Given all the theories of the past that have been refined or tossed out, the strangest thing of all would be if we had it right this time.

You can spend your whole life finding ways in which any religion is ridiculous just as you can always find ways in which a woman isn't "right" for you. That's easy, but unfulfilling. Finding ways to make yourself "right" with THEM is the challenge.

wickerman

I don't feel the least bit unfulfilled that I'm not "right" with christianity. I felt unfulfilled UNTIL I seperated myself from that chosen belief system.

Mot73

BTW, the wink at the end of my apes comment signified a joke...its the token response to the evelolution theory and was meant light hearted

I often wonder what causes us to question our existence to begin with. I wonder if the local bear population is sitting around wonder what the meaning of life is.

What is it that has give us the sense of "right and wrong". I think the vast majority of us would think that a 200lb man smacking around his wife or children is wrong. Why is that wrong and why do we even care?

What causes this moral compass to point to good or bad unless somewhere within us is a baseline of so called right and wrong. Where did that evolve from? How can a sense of morality evolve from some fashion of matter?

I guess that inate sense within me and the complexity of the universe and all that is within it that must remain in balance, how I can look at my child and watch his existance come into being...those things compel me to consider deeply a designer, a planner, builder and sustainer. But thats just me

Again, either way you go, faith is involved unless you done all the scientific studies all by yourself

wickerman

Ahh - Didn't catch the wink

DudeMan

i always find discussions like this tend to go the same way, the people who do not believe in the christian (or any god) god, always have to offer some theory or truth to their beliefs,

but in my opinion, it is much harder to find evidence of the existance of god, many of the explanations are always unexplicable, therfore they must be god.

whereas the scientific route of evolution to me holds more water. it has logical paths whereas a book written after someones death about things, is like an auto biography today. mostly true but sensationalised, only difference is it was written in a time when women with big noses were labbled witches and burned.

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Mot73

If I had the opportunity to do the research and presently I don't, there is a history book called the Bible. Some will say....blahhhhh and just toss it out. Facts are that historically, it is the most accurate book from a historic and scientific sense than an other piece of literature.

There are more manuscripts of the events that is in that book closer to the original writings than any other book in history.

But if you can buy that...then its hard to use its factual historic data.

What I discovered is that people who lean towards something other than a God as creator or sustainer of life..etc is usually not willing to pursue the facts in researching it like they are willing to following the facts of some scientist somewhere who he himself created the model for which he basis his scientific facts.

DudeMan

i like this argument, and it reinforces my own opinion, i dont believe in god, just as i am open to new scientific discoveries and am not set in my ways.

i think that this argument explains the fundemental issue that stops me from having faith in the all powerful being. when we think, in the christian religion, that peopmle must live by the bible and the laws set down alledgedly by jesus i question this.

the bible was made after jesus died by regular people, the message in the bible is their interpretation of events, in my mind it is a theory, written down which people still follow today.

so why will i believe this theory which (as you say) i can find soo many faults with, as oposed to scientific evidence which is constantly updating.

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"