Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens

IceCold · 08-12-2004, 05:15 PM

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...5710-5349r.htm

Quote:

...According to Mr. Hutchinson, President Bush plans to put forward a plan to give aliens access to travel, so they know they can "go and return freely" to their country of origin "without fear of being denied re-entry" to the United States. Mr. Hutchinson adds that the United States needs to give illegal immigrants access to bilateral agreements allowing them to receive Social Security benefits in their home countries and to allow illegals to create tax-deferred savings accounts that could be withdrawn upon their return to those countries...
...In June, a new 12-officer Mobile Patrol Group under the auspices of the Border Patrol arrested more than 450 illegals in a series of raids in Southern California. Latino advocates and 25 California Democratic members of Congress, led by Rep. Joe Baca and including Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, complained to Mr. Hutchinson. Fifty-three House members, including Majority Leader Tom DeLay, signed a letter to Mr. Hutchinson supporting the stepped-up enforcement. So, what did Mr. Hutchinson do? He sided with Mrs. Pelosi and the open-borders crowd. Mr. Hutchinson declared that future operations conducted away from the border must be approved by department higher-up. The National Border Patrol Council representatives in the San Diego area said last month that the the Mobile Patrol Group had been disbanded.
To be certain, John Kerry's approach would be even worse. But that doesn't get the Bush administration off the hook for tilting toward the Kennedy-Pelosi crowd on a critical issue like safeguarding our borders. The administration is courting a platform fight — and further political trouble down the road with the Republican Party's conservative base — with its ill-considered approach on immigration....

**phyllis** · 08-12-2004, 05:25 PM

Oh great...like we don't already allow them wayyyyyyy more than enough freedoms, considering they're here illegally....and we don't owe them a thing...

**USN_Squid** · 08-12-2004, 05:37 PM

I just don't understand it. Especially with the news out last week about Arabs coming across the Mexico border dressed like a typical Mexican. The majority of Americans overwhelmingly agree that our borders are too porous. It's such an obvious hole in our National Security but no politicians, except Colorado's Tom Tancredo, seem to want to do anything about it.

DeRanger · 08-12-2004, 11:15 PM

The same thing happens in Canada except our government gives them a hotel to sleep in, puts money in their pockets, fast-tracks them into trade school at technical institutes, sends them to the doctor and the dentist... I just payed a really large tax bill last year and all my energies now are devoted to saving money so that I can extract myself from this ridiculous Western roundabout in 6-8 years or so. That is what comes with priviledge to some degree in my opinion and I agree with immigration within reason, I'm just sick and tired of paying for it. I think the U.S. is a bitmore strict with their policies and acceptance and thankfully Canada is progressively more so also but when they're jumping from rusted-out freighters and running the border? In my little dictatorship they'd be arrested and put to work cleaning sidewalks instead of given clean clothes, a legal proceeding and comfy flight home on an airliner, all at my (our) expense. Somebody else already owns them unfortunately as is the asian "dilemma" here. I know the U.S. government and some (most/all?) of it's citizens are worried about that big security hole to the North and you should be. Canada has very little actual security (as is evidenced by university students with no experience staffing the Peace Arch crossing lately due to a labour dispute between the border officers and the provincial government) and has many confirmations of radical islamic cells operating in major cities. The Swiss would never let this happen...

**CingularDuality** · 08-12-2004, 11:40 PM

I'll tell you, Canadian immigration policy is scary. Canada doesn't require much for someone to become a "landed immigrant" (which is equivalent to a US Permanent Resident aka green card holder). And US laws are much more lax for Canadian Landed Immigrants. Our borders (other than ports of entry) have been unguarded for a long time, as well. The US has recently beefed up the Border Patrol along the US/Canada border, however, and is continuing to do so. But there is a definite security problem for the US there...

On a side note, I initiated a deportation on my first Canadian last week. He was from Quebec and he was hitchhiking throughout the US because the aliens had replaced his heart and he needed to see beautiful places. Oh, and I caught him because he had been arrested for being high on meth and starting a fight... I thought he was a frenchie frenchman at first, but then I interviewed him and he was much too polite to be French.

Side note #2: I'm glad that Canada denied the refugee claims of those spineless soldiers that deserted their unit and fled north to avoid going to Iraq. I hope they get to spend an appropriate amount of time in prison for that...

Wintermute · 08-13-2004, 12:43 PM

Is the concern in the US because illegal immigrants will get benefits for free, because they will take jobs and send the money home, because they might be terrorists and will blow everything up or all of the above?

Immigration is a big bone of contention here and pretty much the only issue on which the Conservatives ever score any points. In particular, asylum seekers (=! immigrants) are of large concern because their claims involve costly legal proceedings, and they require housing etc. until the claim is processed. Even if they are turned down they often just disappear into the country.

**CingularDuality** · 08-13-2004, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wintermute

Is the concern in the US because illegal immigrants will get benefits for free, because they will take jobs and send the money home, because they might be terrorists and will blow everything up or all of the above?

All of the above. Hospitals and school districts along the southwest border are going bankrupt and/or draining their state's tax coffers. Despite the lies about there not being Americans to work certain jobs, our work force is filling with more and more illegal aliens. And our Border Patrol is catching invaders from countries with known terrorist ties on a regular basis. But the problem is much more complicated than that. People in the US enjoy the cheap labor that illegal immigration provides, but aren't willing to put up with all of the downsides.

Quote:

Immigration is a big bone of contention here and pretty much the only issue on which the Conservatives ever score any points. In particular, asylum seekers (=! immigrants) are of large concern because their claims involve costly legal proceedings, and they require housing etc. until the claim is processed. Even if they are turned down they often just disappear into the country.

How many people live in the UK? We have well over 12 million illegal immigrants living within the US. The deportation process can last for years for just one person, but they usually only take a few months. Do the math and tell me what kind of immigration problem we have... How many would we have to deport per month to get rid of them all in ten years?

**CingularDuality** · 08-14-2004, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LA Times

WASHINGTON -- Visitors entering the United States from select countries will no longer risk being handcuffed and treated as criminals for minor immigration irregularities, the Bush administration said Thursday....
...Officials said the friendlier face at the border would be a step toward restoring balance to an immigration system that went from too permissive before the Sept. 11 attacks to overly prohibitive in the last three years — damaging the reputation of the U.S. abroad.

'It's enough that it can really give the United States a black eye,' said Robert C. Bonner, commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Protection, who instituted the new policy.

Each year, about 10,000 travelers from the visa-waiver countries are denied entry on arrival, many because of technicalities stemming from earlier visits and some because of security or law-enforcement concerns. All face the prospect of spending a night in jail unless a flight home can be immediately arranged....
...Bonner said U.S. authorities would try to avoid the use of handcuffs.

And President Bush wants to remain President of the United States?

Wintermute · 08-14-2004, 07:47 AM

That means people like tourists and business travellers not economic migrants.

e.g. British passports do not yet have fingerprint info and security chips (they will soon). If I wanted to go to the US now I would need a visa and lots of hastle. If it wasn't all in order, I presume I would get locked up then sent home despite the fact I am a British citizen and have been to the US before. Compare this with inter-EU land borders where they barely glance at a British passport.

**CingularDuality** · 08-14-2004, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wintermute

That means people like tourists and business travellers not economic migrants.

e.g. British passports do not yet have fingerprint info and security chips (they will soon). If I wanted to go to the US now I would need a visa and lots of hastle. If it wasn't all in order, I presume I would get locked up then sent home despite the fact I am a British citizen and have been to the US before. Compare this with inter-EU land borders where they barely glance at a British passport.

No, if you don't have proper documents, you're simply refused entry and you'd go home on the same plane you flew in on. If you have been here before and overstayed your legal admission, then you would have been locked up for violating our laws.

Keep in mind that a lot of our tourists and business travellers end up immigrating here illegally, and the best way for us to catch them is when they go home to visit mum and then try to come back.

And I think Brits can still enter the US without a visa as long as their PP is "machine readable", which UK PPs are...

**CingularDuality** · 08-14-2004, 10:36 AM

Here's an interview that Asa Hutchinson gave to a Southern California radio station after the Border Patrol was ordered to stop doing their jobs: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/...hutchinson.wmx

Mr. Hutchinson is the UnderSecretary for the Department of Homeland Security. He's responsible for all immigration enforcement in the US. Basically, he's saying that the Border Patrol should stick to the borders, and that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) should enforce immigration laws on the interior. Problem is that ICE will not go out and look for illegal immigrants. ICE concentrates on complex investigations and other criminal aliens. ICE simply doesn't have the resources or training to do what the Border Patrol excels at...

It is amusing to listen to Asa Hutchinson spin his story, sidestep the questions, and basically ignore the real issue...

IceCold · 08-16-2004, 06:26 PM

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/s...forcement.html

Quote:

But he [Asa Hutchinson] indicated that large numbers of Border Patrol arrests inland are unlikely in the near future.

"Sometimes I'm asked a question: 'Are you going to start the sweeps again?'" Hutchinson said. "If you are referring to sweeps as indiscriminately rounding up people, the answer is no.....Hutchinson was nearly drowned out at times by shouts and catcalls from an audience of more than 800 who demanded sterner measures against illegal immigrants.....The undersecretary drew the sharpest response when he defended immigrants....."Most of them work hard. They love their families and they strive for a better life ...," he said, before he was drowned out by the crowd. He drew cheers when he noted that many illegal immigrants live in fear of deportation. "What we are not going to do is to cause people who are legally here in this country to live in fear because of racial profiling," he said to another chorus of boos. "The challenge before us is to honor the law and not change the character of America."

So, basically our laws mean nothing when it suits a particular political agenda?

**leejo** · 08-16-2004, 06:48 PM

The real issue is the huge latino voting block that's up for grabs. Whoever controls that voting block controls government for the next 50 years. Don't hold your breath for anyone to crack down on the Mexican border.

IceCold · 08-26-2004, 02:13 PM

Survey results on "ATTITUDES AMONG FRONT-LINE BORDER PROTECTION PERSONNEL": http://www.afge.org/Documents/HartSurveyDHS_BP.pdf

**Tempus** · 08-26-2004, 06:27 PM

The real issue is that this country would not be what it is today without immigrants, both legal and illegal. We would not have enough workers to do the jobs that most Americans don't want to do.

All you have to do is look at most of Europe and Japan and see how their declining populations are affecting both their present, and especially their future.

08-12-2004, 05:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
phyllis Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dayton Ohio Age: 40 Posts: 1,502	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens Oh great...like we don't already allow them wayyyyyyy more than enough freedoms, considering they're here illegally....and we don't owe them a thing... __________________

08-12-2004, 05:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
USN_Squid Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denver Age: 38 Posts: 3,129	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens I just don't understand it. Especially with the news out last week about Arabs coming across the Mexico border dressed like a typical Mexican. The majority of Americans overwhelmingly agree that our borders are too porous. It's such an obvious hole in our National Security but no politicians, except Colorado's Tom Tancredo, seem to want to do anything about it. __________________ New to TG? Start here!

08-12-2004, 11:15 PM	#4 (permalink)
DeRanger Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 663	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens The same thing happens in Canada except our government gives them a hotel to sleep in, puts money in their pockets, fast-tracks them into trade school at technical institutes, sends them to the doctor and the dentist... I just payed a really large tax bill last year and all my energies now are devoted to saving money so that I can extract myself from this ridiculous Western roundabout in 6-8 years or so. That is what comes with priviledge to some degree in my opinion and I agree with immigration within reason, I'm just sick and tired of paying for it. I think the U.S. is a bitmore strict with their policies and acceptance and thankfully Canada is progressively more so also but when they're jumping from rusted-out freighters and running the border? In my little dictatorship they'd be arrested and put to work cleaning sidewalks instead of given clean clothes, a legal proceeding and comfy flight home on an airliner, all at my (our) expense. Somebody else already owns them unfortunately as is the asian "dilemma" here. I know the U.S. government and some (most/all?) of it's citizens are worried about that big security hole to the North and you should be. Canada has very little actual security (as is evidenced by university students with no experience staffing the Peace Arch crossing lately due to a labour dispute between the border officers and the provincial government) and has many confirmations of radical islamic cells operating in major cities. The Swiss would never let this happen...

08-12-2004, 11:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,637	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens I'll tell you, Canadian immigration policy is scary. Canada doesn't require much for someone to become a "landed immigrant" (which is equivalent to a US Permanent Resident aka green card holder). And US laws are much more lax for Canadian Landed Immigrants. Our borders (other than ports of entry) have been unguarded for a long time, as well. The US has recently beefed up the Border Patrol along the US/Canada border, however, and is continuing to do so. But there is a definite security problem for the US there... On a side note, I initiated a deportation on my first Canadian last week. He was from Quebec and he was hitchhiking throughout the US because the aliens had replaced his heart and he needed to see beautiful places. Oh, and I caught him because he had been arrested for being high on meth and starting a fight... I thought he was a frenchie frenchman at first, but then I interviewed him and he was much too polite to be French. Side note #2: I'm glad that Canada denied the refugee claims of those spineless soldiers that deserted their unit and fled north to avoid going to Iraq. I hope they get to spend an appropriate amount of time in prison for that... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

08-13-2004, 12:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens Is the concern in the US because illegal immigrants will get benefits for free, because they will take jobs and send the money home, because they might be terrorists and will blow everything up or all of the above? Immigration is a big bone of contention here and pretty much the only issue on which the Conservatives ever score any points. In particular, asylum seekers (=! immigrants) are of large concern because their claims involve costly legal proceedings, and they require housing etc. until the claim is processed. Even if they are turned down they often just disappear into the country. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

08-14-2004, 07:47 AM	#9 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens That means people like tourists and business travellers not economic migrants. e.g. British passports do not yet have fingerprint info and security chips (they will soon). If I wanted to go to the US now I would need a visa and lots of hastle. If it wasn't all in order, I presume I would get locked up then sent home despite the fact I am a British citizen and have been to the US before. Compare this with inter-EU land borders where they barely glance at a British passport. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

08-14-2004, 10:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,637	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens Here's an interview that Asa Hutchinson gave to a Southern California radio station after the Border Patrol was ordered to stop doing their jobs: http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/...hutchinson.wmx Mr. Hutchinson is the UnderSecretary for the Department of Homeland Security. He's responsible for all immigration enforcement in the US. Basically, he's saying that the Border Patrol should stick to the borders, and that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) should enforce immigration laws on the interior. Problem is that ICE will not go out and look for illegal immigrants. ICE concentrates on complex investigations and other criminal aliens. ICE simply doesn't have the resources or training to do what the Border Patrol excels at... It is amusing to listen to Asa Hutchinson spin his story, sidestep the questions, and basically ignore the real issue... __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

08-16-2004, 06:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,523	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens The real issue is the huge latino voting block that's up for grabs. Whoever controls that voting block controls government for the next 50 years. Don't hold your breath for anyone to crack down on the Mexican border.

08-26-2004, 02:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
IceCold Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 716	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens Survey results on "ATTITUDES AMONG FRONT-LINE BORDER PROTECTION PERSONNEL": http://www.afge.org/Documents/HartSurveyDHS_BP.pdf

08-26-2004, 06:27 PM	#15 (permalink)
Tempus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Age: 38 Posts: 8,094	Re: Department of Homeland Security caves to illegal aliens The real issue is that this country would not be what it is today without immigrants, both legal and illegal. We would not have enough workers to do the jobs that most Americans don't want to do. All you have to do is look at most of Europe and Japan and see how their declining populations are affecting both their present, and especially their future.

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