State of Denial

AMosely · 10-03-2006, 01:05 PM

In the name of discussing how history will view Bush's time in office, this book, and linked review, is worth considering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/bo...ed=1&ref=books

I don't really care to have a debate about the degree of bias or the validity of Woodward's recollections, observations or opinions. Woodward is a veteran journalist (see Watergate), but this is obviously one man's perspective and must be taken as that. However, it is a perspective that is going to be forever connected to the growing historical record on the Bush administration.

**USN_Squid** · 10-03-2006, 01:47 PM

If you don't want to discuss it then you're just pimping it. Shouldn't this be in the Buy/Sell forum?

xTYBALTx · 10-03-2006, 01:49 PM

Denial? Of what - Iraq? But everything's great there!

**CingularDuality** · 10-03-2006, 02:41 PM

I think that much of history's recollection of President Bush will be determined after his presidency has long since ended...

We're living in pivotal times and the President's actions are a big part of that pivot. Only time will tell...

TheFatKidDeath · 10-03-2006, 02:45 PM

I watched his interview on 60 minutes Sunday evening and would be curious to read the book. Though, this all seems like old news, as it's been clear all along that the Bush Administration are a bunch of bunglers and incompetence runs thru the whole cabinet.

I'm guessing they won't be giving out this book as White House Christmas gifts like they did with Woodward's first two!

**Grunt 70** · 10-03-2006, 02:56 PM

I don't know...I'm a left leaning moderate and I have to wonder...Would Gore have done any better than Bush. As I get older I belive more and more that the polemics of politics are all a smoke screen. Republican or Democrat --they have their differences to be sure but in the long run they are more similar than many want to admit. Politics is politics.

**section-8** · 10-04-2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grunt 70

I don't know...I'm a right leaning moderate and I have to wonder...Would Gore have done any better than Bush. As I get older I belive more and more that the polemics of politics are all a smoke screen. Republican or Democrat --they have their differences to be sure but in the long run they are more similar than many want to admit. Politics is politics.

fixed for personal situation and quoted for truth, yo

xTYBALTx · 10-04-2006, 01:27 AM

I think Gore would've reacted more aggresively in Afghanistan. Other than that, not sure...

This is all pure speculation though, so who knows?

Lucky Shot · 10-04-2006, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

I think Gore would've reacted more aggresively in Afghanistan. Other than that, not sure...

This is all pure speculation though, so who knows?

Yep, there would be no pollution in Afghanistan, that's for sure... Everything else is speculation.

Lucky Shot

xTYBALTx · 10-04-2006, 01:48 AM

LOL. I can just imagine it...

/slight southern drawl & grandstanding

"I am proud to announce that our ally Afghanistan will be signing the Kyoto treaty, and that we will work together with this nation to reduce their CO2 emissions to 1990 levels! Victory has truly been achieved!"

/drawl

Coridon · 10-04-2006, 02:18 AM

I'm #103 in the queue at my library, which sounds awful unless you realize they have 75 copies of the book...

Thank YOU public library!!

AMosely · 10-04-2006, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by USN_Squid

If you don't want to discuss it then you're just pimping it. Shouldn't this be in the Buy/Sell forum?

I only said I wasn't interested in debating the validity of his statements, degree of bias or whether or not one agrees with his perspective. I am interested in discussing the factual content as he presents it, and how this will (or won't) affect the developing historical record of Bush's administration. Woodward's reporting on Nixon (even leaving out the watergate affair) is now part of Nixon's historical record. Will any of his reporting on Bush and his administration (because this book is more about the administration than Bush himself) follow the same course? He has an even higher level of access to the White House now than he ever did. This book contains direct interviews with Rumsfeld, Rice, Powell, Carr, Rove, Cheney, and even Laura Bush - which is pretty rare. I thought it was worth pointing out, and I believe it will greatly influence the historical record.

**leejo** · 10-04-2006, 12:25 PM

Why do you think that? People have pretty much blown off the conclusions Woodward reached in the first two books because those conclusions didn't fit their cartoon image of the president.

Unless he is forced to resign because of obstruction of justice, or is impeached for some shameful act, Bush's story will be determined like all other presidents': based on the success or failure of his policies. We won't be able to truly tell that for years to come.

Steeler · 10-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Why do you think that? People have pretty much blown off the conclusions Woodward reached in the first two books because those conclusions didn't fit their cartoon image of the president.

That cuts both ways. Back when he was singing the President's praises, it was required reading at the White House. Now he writes a book that actually contradicts his earlier work, and his motives and biases are questioned. In any case, if this is an accurate portrayal of the mechanics of governance at work within the administration, we are all doomed and have been for some time now.

10-03-2006, 01:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 34 Posts: 2,793	State of Denial In the name of discussing how history will view Bush's time in office, this book, and linked review, is worth considering. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/30/bo...ed=1&ref=books I don't really care to have a debate about the degree of bias or the validity of Woodward's recollections, observations or opinions. Woodward is a veteran journalist (see Watergate), but this is obviously one man's perspective and must be taken as that. However, it is a perspective that is going to be forever connected to the growing historical record on the Bush administration.

10-03-2006, 01:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
USN_Squid Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Denver Age: 38 Posts: 3,173	Re: State of Denial If you don't want to discuss it then you're just pimping it. Shouldn't this be in the Buy/Sell forum? __________________ New to TG? Start here!

10-03-2006, 01:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: State of Denial Denial? Of what - Iraq? But everything's great there! __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

10-03-2006, 02:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 17,133	Re: State of Denial I think that much of history's recollection of President Bush will be determined after his presidency has long since ended... We're living in pivotal times and the President's actions are a big part of that pivot. Only time will tell... __________________ Become a supporting member! Buy a Tactical Duck! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

10-03-2006, 02:45 PM	#5 (permalink)
TheFatKidDeath Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Monica, CA Age: 39 Posts: 2,798	Re: State of Denial I watched his interview on 60 minutes Sunday evening and would be curious to read the book. Though, this all seems like old news, as it's been clear all along that the Bush Administration are a bunch of bunglers and incompetence runs thru the whole cabinet. I'm guessing they won't be giving out this book as White House Christmas gifts like they did with Woodward's first two! __________________ \|TG-9th\| TheFatKidDeath "Born to Party, Forced to Work." http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55640 - Check me out on The Onion http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...ssfully_avoids - I'm on the local news!

10-03-2006, 02:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Grunt 70 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Massachusetts Age: 43 Posts: 2,494	Re: State of Denial I don't know...I'm a left leaning moderate and I have to wonder...Would Gore have done any better than Bush. As I get older I belive more and more that the polemics of politics are all a smoke screen. Republican or Democrat --they have their differences to be sure but in the long run they are more similar than many want to admit. Politics is politics. __________________ \|TG-22nd\|Grunt "When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky

10-04-2006, 01:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: State of Denial I think Gore would've reacted more aggresively in Afghanistan. Other than that, not sure... This is all pure speculation though, so who knows? __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

10-04-2006, 01:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: State of Denial LOL. I can just imagine it... /slight southern drawl & grandstanding "I am proud to announce that our ally Afghanistan will be signing the Kyoto treaty, and that we will work together with this nation to reduce their CO2 emissions to 1990 levels! Victory has truly been achieved!" /drawl __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

10-04-2006, 02:18 AM	#11 (permalink)
Coridon Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Age: 34 Posts: 2,360	Re: State of Denial I'm #103 in the queue at my library, which sounds awful unless you realize they have 75 copies of the book... Thank YOU public library!!

10-04-2006, 12:25 PM	#13 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: State of Denial Why do you think that? People have pretty much blown off the conclusions Woodward reached in the first two books because those conclusions didn't fit their cartoon image of the president. Unless he is forced to resign because of obstruction of justice, or is impeached for some shameful act, Bush's story will be determined like all other presidents': based on the success or failure of his policies. We won't be able to truly tell that for years to come.

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