No-Swipe Credit Cards and You - Page 2

**Apophis** · 10-23-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

...tiny computer chips smaller than a grain of sand to track everyday objects and even people, keeping tabs on everything you own and everywhere you go.

I'm not sure how accurate she is with the concept of using chips smaller than a grain of sand, but this is what your average RFID tag looks like. Similar to the ones used in the back cover of newer US Passports and credit/debit cards:

**CingularDuality** · 10-23-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

Liz McIntyre...expose how organizations like Procter & Gamble, Gillette, Wal-Mart, and even the U.S. Postal Service plan to use tiny computer chips smaller than a grain of sand to track everyday objects and even people, keeping tabs on everything you own and everywhere you go.

Yeah, I think I heard from her about how WalMart is thinking about requiring all customers to carry a membership card (RFID), and that every price throughout the store will be customized for each person based on buying habits. If someone buys milk at WalMart every single time they visit, without fail, well, then Walmart can raise the price of that product a few cents because it's a sure thing. If the customer then visits without buying milk, they can lower the price a few cents to make it attractive again. If a customer always shops the sale items, then all non-sale items will be a bit more expensive to them, hoping to make up the profit loss on impulse buys. If a customer does all of their shopping at Walmart, then they'll see prices which appear to be be lower than the sale shopper's, but the actual profit margin will be the same. If WalMart is able to convince shoppers that this type of scheme is beneficial, the possibilities for manipulating prices are almost limitless. And with club discount cards at every other store, I don't see why people would raise heck about WalMart doing it...

**CingularDuality** · 10-23-2006, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I'm not sure how accurate she is with the concept of using chips smaller than a grain of sand, but this is what your average RFID tag looks like. Similar to the ones used in the back cover of newer US Passports and credit/debit cards:

http://members.tacticalgamer.com/~ap...mages/rfid.jpg

Well, how big would you say the chip is on that tag?

xTYBALTx · 10-23-2006, 02:27 PM

I believe that Crichton's next book (released in November) touches on some of this stuff.

**Apophis** · 10-23-2006, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Well, how big would you say the chip is on that tag?

Just the chip itself? About 3/16" x 3/16". I just feel that saying it's smaller than a grain of sand, or even about the same size, is misleading. The chip itself is much larger than a grain of sand, more pebble sized, and is completely dysfunctional without the rest of the tag.

**Pokerface** · 10-23-2006, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

I'm not sure how accurate she is with the concept of using chips smaller than a grain of sand, but this is what your average RFID tag looks like. Similar to the ones used in the back cover of newer US Passports and credit/debit cards:

As we've all go different resolutions on our monitors, how big is that supposed to be?

And do they get smaller?

**Vulcan** · 10-23-2006, 03:27 PM

That looks like the same tag they put on electronics in stores for theft prevention.

**Apophis** · 10-23-2006, 03:36 PM

About 1.5" x 1.5" is pretty common. They come smaller and larger, rectangular and circular. Lots of varieties to choose from.

**Quest Shady** · 10-23-2006, 04:34 PM

I think they use that analogy of the rice for not just the in store items but for RFID in general such as the chips that are put into pets now days and the ones they are thinking of using on Alzheimer’s patients that can get lost.

I got this image off of http://www.chippet.com showing what they use is about the size of a grain of rice. A dog I was given has one of these in her and supposedly if she is lost I call the number in the info packet and they can locate her.

One of the big proponents of chipping humans is VeriChip and they are the leaders in trying to push a lot of the legislation allowing “chipping” of humans.

One hand seems useful on the other scary...

**Quest Shady** · 10-23-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apophis

This is something i've been working on, reading data off RFID-equipped credit and debit cards without the cardholders knowledge.

Oh and I forgot to ask...why are you doing this? TG Community supplemental income perhaps?

LOL!

Buck Fush · 10-23-2006, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

... A dog I was given has one of these in her and supposedly if she is lost I call the number in the info packet and they can locate her....

They can locate her if a shelter has picked her up, scanned her and notified them that they have her. They however cannot locate her position at any given time. These are not little GPS trackers, they merely trasmit data in a very lmited range when activated by a reader.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

...One of the big proponents of chipping humans is VeriChip and they are the leaders in trying to push a lot of the legislation allowing “chipping” of humans.

One hand seems useful on the other scary...

There's nothing scary about Verichip, unless you're talking about the Mondex hoax.

Steeler · 10-23-2006, 07:59 PM

I for one am looking forward to bearing the mark of the Beast in order to engage in commerce.

icky · 10-23-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

I for one am looking forward to bearing the mark of the Beast in order to engage in commerce.

Sign up early! It would be so disappointing to wait in line overnight and end up with 667 on your scalp.

As for the topic at hand, I don't personally care. When implementations happen, they will need to address the risks in an appropriate way. If they don't, then there will be a bunch of news stories and they won't have any customers. The market will sort it all out. It isn't like credit cards are secure right now, and the banks take all of the risk (at least in Canada they do).

**Apophis** · 10-23-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

I got this image off of http://www.chippet.com showing what they use is about the size of a grain of rice. A dog I was given has one of these in her and supposedly if she is lost I call the number in the info packet and they can locate her.

That is basically the same RFID transponder that is used in the Mobil Speedpass keychains. If you crack open the little plastic holder, that's what you find inside. I actually have one around here somewhere, I just looked for it so I could take a picture and upload it, but I couldn't find it.

Those grains of rice are long grain, considerably bigger than normal rice you see on a daily basis. The Speedpass RFID chip is close to 3/4" long.

**Apophis** · 10-23-2006, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quest Shady

Oh and I forgot to ask...why are you doing this? TG Community supplemental income perhaps?

LOL!

Why? It's my job. Tactical Gamer is just my hobby, It's not anything that generates income for me. My day job is as a security consultant/auditor. Most of my work is in the financial industry and includes banks, credit card processors, issuers, etc.

10-23-2006, 02:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,744	Re: No-Swipe Credit Cards and You I believe that Crichton's next book (released in November) touches on some of this stuff. __________________ Current good song: Justice - Stress "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

10-23-2006, 03:27 PM	#22 (permalink)
Vulcan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Montreal Age: 29 Posts: 7,102	Re: No-Swipe Credit Cards and You That looks like the same tag they put on electronics in stores for theft prevention. __________________ TG Primer - CSS SOP's - INS SOP's

10-23-2006, 03:36 PM	#23 (permalink)
Apophis Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Rhode Island, USA Age: 35 Posts: 8,858	Re: No-Swipe Credit Cards and You About 1.5" x 1.5" is pretty common. They come smaller and larger, rectangular and circular. Lots of varieties to choose from. __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying "good doggie" while looking for a bigger stick.

10-23-2006, 04:34 PM	#24 (permalink)
Quest Shady Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brandon, FL Age: 37 Posts: 793	Re: No-Swipe Credit Cards and You I think they use that analogy of the rice for not just the in store items but for RFID in general such as the chips that are put into pets now days and the ones they are thinking of using on Alzheimer’s patients that can get lost. I got this image off of http://www.chippet.com showing what they use is about the size of a grain of rice. A dog I was given has one of these in her and supposedly if she is lost I call the number in the info packet and they can locate her. One of the big proponents of chipping humans is VeriChip and they are the leaders in trying to push a lot of the legislation allowing “chipping” of humans. One hand seems useful on the other scary... __________________ TG CS:S SOPs \|TG CS:S Admins \| SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIPS Health and Wellness are not accidents. Take Action Now!

10-23-2006, 07:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,912	Re: No-Swipe Credit Cards and You I for one am looking forward to bearing the mark of the Beast in order to engage in commerce. __________________

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