leejo

Those bible-thumping stun guns are getting out of control!

I would argue that the deaths were related to physical confrontations with the police, which I imagine can be hazardous to your health.

Steeler

If it's not okay for police to accidentally beat a suspect to death, then it's not okay to accidentally taser him to death either.

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Kerostasis

The article mentioned a "teen" with a Bible, not a "team". Just FYI.

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leejo

ack typo. We'll get that fixed asap.

I doubt very seriously that it's "ok" for the police to kill anyone for any reason. I believe that each homicide is scrutinized.

Unfortunately, I think that you have to take a big picture view of issues like this and consider what application of force, or lack of force, poses the least risk and best protects the community. Simply barfing up "stun guns killed 156 people last year" doesn't tell us the full picture. Are fewer people getting shot by the police? Are fewer police being killed or seriously injured in physical altercations? The 156 number is, I would argue, the figure that is least informative and most incendiary. Par for the course with Amnesty Int'l.

I just thought the headline was funny and terrible. A stun gun kills a teenager with a bible? Col. Mustard killed Miss Marple in the kitchen with a piece of toast?

Ferris Bueller

I work very closely with the boulder police dept through my job and have seen some of their evidentiary videos that they use in court...you know, the kind of stuff that gets on cops and whatnot. Cops are trained to use the taser as a submission weapon, wherein if someone gets tasered, and they keep trying to resist, you can hit em again. I saw a video of BPD having to taser some drunk frat boy well over 10 times because he kept trying to stand up and telling the police to f' off. Now, had that kid had a heart condition, it could have killed him, but it would have been his fault. If you're being zapped with that many volts of electricity and you have health problems, you should have been smart enough NOT to have put yourself in that position in the first place.
When the police move to the taser, they have given you AMPLE opportunity to comply and cooperate, so if you get zapped and die, i believe that falls under suicide by cop. This is not saying that some cop tasering someone to death is "ok", but if it's being used correctly, you cant hold the cop responsible for the suspect being a moron. Seriously, the alternative was for the cop to shoot him. Think about that one.
EDIT:
Important statistic to keep in mind also:
Amnest international reported at least 156 deaths in the LAST 5 YEARS.
Police had used Tasers more than 70,000 times last year according to Congress' GAO.
Thats a big difference.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

xTYBALTx

Yes, clearly the only alternative to tazering a drunken frat boy who is attempting to tell the cops to "F- off" is to shoot him. Grand.

I wonder what they do in Britain? Not sure if the bobbies carry tazers, but I know they aren't packing heat. They must be helpless in the face of drunken malcontents!

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Current good song: Justice - Stress

Steeler

My comment was not meant to be overly critical of the use of tasers. They serve a purpose, and when used judiciously I imagine they are a very valuable tool. I was reacting to leejo's (IMO) rather flippant remark regarding the potential culpability (or presumed lack thereof) of police in the deaths of suspects.

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leejo

I didn't mean to sound flippant, but I do think it's pretty stupid to mouth off to people who carry guns sticks, and tasers and even stupider to get into a fight with them. I mean....damn! What on earth could be more stupid?

Anyway, the stun gun may have been the instrument, but the cause of death in every case was that the person became involved in a physical confrontation with the police.

Again with the South Park:

So I'd say that the cause of death was incredible stupidity. The stupidity was so severe that the deceased thought they could get into a fight with armed individuals and count on luck, judgment, and restraint when the consequence for being wrong on any count might be death. At best, each stupid person who gets into a fight with a cop has tacked on months or years and many thousands of dollars to what might have been a minor altercation. At worst, these stupid people may suffer wounds that land them in the hospital or the morgue.

Hmm... Maybe I did mean to sound flippant.

leejo

Anyone with sense knows they should have just gotten the ugliest girl at the party to walk around in front of him saying "I'm so drunk". He would have made a clumsy pass at her and been unconscious within seconds.

Steeler

It's not always stupidity. The example in the link above sounds like a disturbed individual.

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leejo

You're right and I'm sorry. He does sound disturbed, or on some serious drugs, and he shouldn't have died. Still, I see the taser as the instrument or his death and the confrontation as the cause.

Hambergler

I guess he got what he wanted.

Steeler

That's fair.

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AMosely

Hambergler, your avatar/icon made me think of Ronald McDonald getting tasered, and that thought made me laugh. Perhaps Hambergler, or Mayor McCheese would be the one doing the tasing. Or would it be Big Mac, because wasn't he the cop?

Cage match starring the McDonalds characters would get pretty severe, I would think.

Grunt 70

I'd debate the word "every" here. Surely there must be some cases where the law stepped over the line without justifiable provocation. Victoria Snelgrove anyone? Granted the Taser wasn't involved in Victoria's death but I couldn't help but think of her after reading Leejo's comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Snelgrove

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|TG-22nd|Grunt



"When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky