TheFatKidDeath

I'll repeat:

I don't see how any clearer it can be when our own National Intelligence Estimates concludes that the "Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse." That is not a recipe for success against terrorism.

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TheFatKidDeath

The terrorists in Iraq don't care if the US military have not lost a battle or not as they are fighting a guerrilla war.

What difference does it make if we have not lost a battle? From the man who was largely responsible for the other war where we never lost a battle:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...900287_pf.html

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Lucky Shot

Neither is problem avoidance. Hiding your head in a hole is not going to make terrorism go away. It didn't when Clinton was in office. Leaving Iraq and putting troops in Okinawa won't either.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...ralia_Iraq.php

Lucky Shot

TheFatKidDeath

Whose advocating avoidance? Far from it, I'm recoginizing what we need to do to reduce the threat of terrorism rather "staying the course" with a policy that sane people can agree to be a disaster for the US and region.


Additionally, the Australian leader John Howard has zero credibility on Iraq:

"Forty-three eminent Australians, including two former chiefs of defense, three former intelligence chiefs and 30 former ambassadors, on Sunday issued a scathing public statement accusing the government of deceit, and of rubber-stamping foreign policies decided by Washington.

"We are concerned that Australia was committed to join the invasion of Iraq on the basis of false assumptions and the deception of the Australian people," the statement said.

"Above all, it is wrong and dangerous for our elected representatives to mislead the Australian people.

"Saddam (Hussein)'s dictatorial regime has ended but removing him was not the reason given to the Australian people for going to war."

CNN 8-9-06

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Strag

I know! That whole "learning from history" thing and all.

Switchcraft

You are advocating avoidance. You have never indicated how you think pulling out of Iraq now will reduce the threat of terrorrism. Since you love quoting the NIE so much, you must think it's credible. Why don't you go read the whole thing and tell us what it says about the aftermath of a retreat from Iraq?

And since when do 43 retired people, most of whom have no training in military matters or access to the broad range of intelligence available to the Australian government, have more credibility than the Australian government itself?

By that logic, you have no credibility on Iraq, since I bet I can find 30 retired guys who think retreat won't reduce terrorism.

freekyE

Coca-cola hates islam and loves jews? Well, all I can say is at least the terrorists are idiots.....

Now i didnt watch the whole video, I couldnt.

But, I checked out this Glen Beck guy. He so far "right wing", he looks like Ann Coulter with a package.

Just another Venom spewing moron watching some of you guys fill his bank account. He takes footage, And shows you any context that supports his claims. Do any of you speak the launguage being spoken in the video? Do you know for shure it was translated correcty and there wasnt a "mistake"?


I know, I know, He even tells you hes no journalist at the beginning of the show, then why the hell is he on CNN? Its a news network. This guy is the international version of Jerry Springer.

Ugh, I can hardly find any news that even seems remotely true much less "fair and balanced".

Any of you journalists? Or maybe into journalism? Think maybe we could just get the news without slant towards certain political parties agendas/ product placements?

TG_JBRanger

I'll be preface by saying I haven't watched the footage.

But, I used to listen to Glenn Beck on the radio before he went on the air on CNN. Funny as heck! I'd be rolling with tears coming out of my eyes at some of the comedy that was done on the show. Great stuff.

Even not having watched the footage.....I nearly always found myself agreeing with Beck.... same point of view on things. Yes, he may be just another journalist to most and yes he is right wing definitely, but I find him entertaining.

About getting news with no slant....yea right. It seems EVERYONE has an agenda and put spin on the news in one way or another. I too wish someone would report the news...good and bad. Not just bad.

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tau_neutrino

If you want to see more of this Islamic propaganda, check out www.memritv.org .

It's quite disturbing.

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USN_Squid

You guys that are slamming the messenger here (Glenn Beck) are looking a little silly in my opinion. Yes, he's conservative but he is nothing....nothing like Coulter or the other "morons" and "windbags". (Nice show of tolerance for other's points of view by the way).

If you'll watch the show before you cast judgement you'll see at the end where he spends one segment talking to moderate Muslims that speak out against terrorists and applauds them, encourages them. Directly countering the silly accusations of Olberman (who?) and some of you here.

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TheFatKidDeath

The NIE is a classified document. How am I to read a something that has not been released to the general public? Perhaps you have the proper clearance and are able to view what it says. Please let us know.

On what bases do you make the statement that 43 retired Australian government officials have no military training and are not qualified to make a judgement? Former defense officials, ambassadors and others with knowledge of government are certainly qualified to make judgements and critiques and in many cases the most qualified. It happens all the time. Everytime I turn on my television or radio there is some former government offical being interviewed for their views on the situation.

It's not a question of retreat nor of cut and run but of stay and make the situation worse for Iraq, US troops and the region. Pulling US troops out of Iraq will not elminiate terrorism. No one has ever made that claim. Beyond the false notion that Iraq is the central war on terror, even more circular is the idea that the United States has to stay in Iraq until it "defeats" the resistance to the occupation.

The occupation itself is the source of the resistance, a fact that even some of the people responsible for the war have been forced to acknowledge. Only a small percentage of the terrorists in Iraq are foreign fighters according to intelligence analysts, CIA and the DOD. The majority of terrorists fighting US troops in Iraq are home grown resistance.

The elminination of terrorism is a pipe dream. We can greatly reduce the threat of terrorism but we can never wipe it out entirely. That's the question. How do we reduce rather create more terrorism? By any measure, the invasion of Iraq has created more terrorism and hatred towards this country. Removing US troops from Iraq will reduce the threat substantially both in the future and presently where US troops are simply bystanders in a civil war.

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CingularDuality

Negative. Glenn Beck definitely leans to the right, no doubt about it, but he's pretty moderate. And he's funny as hell!

I don't care if you're a right wing kook or a lefty liberal, listen to Glenn Beck's radio show for a week, and I assure you, you will laugh your ass off...

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freekyE

I don't mind giving someone a chance (and I said Ive only done some checking) But this guy gave me a serious bad first impression with this interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpyuxR60kVg

Why bother to have someone on your show who is obviously trying to rationally discuss a subject and then yell over their responses to your outrageous claims? He comes off to me as a sarcastic, lopsided ass.

Here he yells at the guy about government executions when we had almost as many executions here in America the same year.

And how many people here say something all the time to the effect of "If its against the law, don't do it and you wont be punished." Well I would imagine its the same way in other countries. Why is it not right for another country to put to death their worst criminals when its perfectly alright for ours to do so? .........Oh, wait, lethal injection is more humane......right.

Oh and for the record I'm neither Conservative or Liberal. Not only do I hate those stupid one dimensional labels I don't agree with EVERYTHING either side has to say. Most of the politicians are millionaire sons of millionaires sons....which rate slightly less than human to me. (but thats a whole new topic)

AMosely

I watched most of this the other day. While I'm not a Glenn Beck fan, I appreciated him putting disclaimers on his broadcast - 'I am a conservative and this report is not balanced.' Good for him. More journalists (and news outlets) should do this before they offer up an opinion piece. It doesn't excuse him for editing his piece into a form of domestic propaganda of its own (and so outwardly displaying his own fear), yet this material is important and worthy of attention.

Instead of debating Iraq (again) in this thread, we should instead be discussing the extremist propaganda that Beck is presenting in this video. He is painting with a broad brush, but there is no doubt that much of this material factually exists. Grouped together it is quite disturbing. One must keep in mind that the extent to which this propaganda is consumed and believed is limited to a fraction of the population of countries like Jordan, Syria and Iran.

My personal belief on countering propaganda is to make more of an effort to counter it both publicly (by not displaying open disregard for International law and human rights) and privately (distributing covert propaganda of your own, as the US does in all of the aforementioned countries). The US has always done plenty of private counter-propaganda. I wish that they would do more publicly - it would go a long way in today's restless, overly religious global landscape.

freekyE

Well put, I get a little excited and ramble sometimes.

And yes, why not show these people what our daily lives are really like? I can imagine my daily life isnt so different from a muslim living in syria....
wake up> go to school/work > come home> eat dinner/ talk to my family >go to bed /repeat ad nauseum