The New Global Warming Thread

[BigGaayAl]

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

Lucky Shot

I have to respect these new companies for finding a way to make money out of thin air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo - No, it's NOT a joke .

[leejo]

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

I have to respect these new companies for finding a way to make money out of thin air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo - No, it's NOT a joke .

NSFW

[leejo]

OK so I've been thinking about this thing I read a few weeks ago, and the 90-degree turn this thread has made from talking about the science of global warming to several of you bashing capitalism, the industrial world, the USA, whatever, and I think you're really telling on yourselves. NASA revises the numbers down? No problem. Still global warming. The majority of scientists say it's man-made turns out to be less than half, with only one predicting a dire future? Doesn't matter. Global warming.

This is because scientific facts aren't the real issue. Global Warming isn't even the real issue.

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/am...6-year-america

And that's why this conversation may certainly be "sustainable" in the sense that it can go on forever - in the sense that styrofoam is sustainable - but it seems unlikely to be productive.

[CingularDuality]

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

Actually, it's not rich Americans living off poor Africans. It's rich people all over the world living off poor people all over the world.

Would you care to explain how that is? I mean, yeah, I understand that there are African warlords that have gotten rich at the expense of the poor. But could you explain how you and I have gotten rich off the poor? How is it that our ability to afford luxuries (like spending much of our time at TG, or otherwise gaming) has caused someone else to be poor?

And plz everyone stop equating the UN with corruption. That is severe bs. ONLY Americans have been fooled into thinking that, as a diversion by your administration, John Bolton and other morons. Off course a big organisation has it mishaps, but that is not enough to discredit everything it says. You guys don't throw away all info from republicans because most of them seem to be rather homosexual toilet-recreationalists, because Tom Delay is corrupt,..... NO this are isolated but the UN is all corrupt. ...

That is thinking the world revolves around your own *ss.

C'mon... The Oil for Food fraud reached to every single level of the United Nations. The ENTIRE organization was affected! Sure, Kofi's gone, but do you think that you can purge that sort of organizational mindset by just replacing the Secretary General? We saw Ban KiMoon get reined in during his FIRST week in office on the subject of the death penalty!

And I'll throw away information from any US politician. They're all slimy in one way or another... Thankfully, our government is set up in a way that provides checks and balances against abuses of power.

[AMosely]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this is one of the most illogical things I think I've ever heard you say.

If I get a better job than my neighbor, and have better soil to garden in, a stream beside my house and discover oil in my backyard, while my neighbor has a crappy job, often has his water disconnected, can't grow much of a garden, has no oil, and to top it off his family is always fighting and the police show up every other night, is that my fault? Have I somehow not paid a debt that I owe to his children because I'm prosperous?

If I'm misunderstanding, then please clarify your position. It sounds like you're saying that the Western world's prosperity is at the cost of, in this case, Africa. I call BS on this one.

You aren't as much misunderstanding this as you are applying the argument in the wrong perspective. All of my recent comments concerning prosperity, scarcity and the costs of both only pertain to the issue when viewed on a macroeconomic scale - the human race as a single entity, a single system over history. These comments do not apply to looking at a certain nation's economy, or the economics of your neighborhood, nor should they be taken literally so as to apply to your jobless neighbor scenario. Think of it this way - you and your jobless neighbor are both part of a local economy, which is part of a national economy, which is part of a regional (industrialized) economy, which is part of a global economy. My arguments speak mostly to that global scale, where the prosperity of some regional economies owes much to the manipulation and neglect of other regional economies.

I'm making these arguments in reaction to the opinion piece that Tybalt posted proclaiming the virtues of globalization as if it will bring prosperity for all. That line of thinking is untrue given the current realities of the global and human economy and the historical track record of economic manipulation and abuse by corporations, governments and financial NGO's such as the World Bank. For a first-hand account of what I am talking about, see John Perkins' books, such as 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.'

Again, this is my own opinion and I'm sure many disagree with it.

[BigGaayAl]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

C'mon... The Oil for Food fraud reached to every single level of the United Nations. The ENTIRE organization was affected! Sure, Kofi's gone, but do you think that you can purge that sort of organizational mindset by just replacing the Secretary General? We saw Ban KiMoon get reined in during his FIRST week in office on the subject of the death penalty!

And I'll throw away information from any US politician. They're all slimy in one way or another... Thankfully, our government is set up in a way that provides checks and balances against abuses of power.

My point was simply (by using republican example) that corruption is inherent to any organisation/institution. I merely demand that you hold the same standards for the UN as any other organisation.

I didn't say your whole government is corrupt, you DO SEEM to say the all of the UN is not to be trusted/corrupt ("the entire organisation was affected"). You have put words in my mount, then insinuate that i am using the same logical trickery as you did, yet I didn't.

If you believe the UN is more corrupt, then any other large organisation, you have been had, by someone. The problem is, that someone has an agenda, I advise you to investigate what that agenda is.

[Kerostasis]

Meanwhile, you seem to say that the UN should be trusted explicitly, despite the evidence of corruption, simply because corruption is "normal" and to be expected.

I'll grant you corruption is a part of human nature. But it does not have to be simply accepted. It can be fought. And large organizations can attempt to fight it and control it. By and large, the UN has not done this, and therefore does not hold our trust.

You freely admit that the UN is tainted by corruption, even going so far as to proclaim corruption is "inherent" to any organization of its size...and yet you still wish us to place Trust in the UN to hold our best interests above its own? I'm afraid you are the one who has been "had" here.

[BigGaayAl]

[quote=Kerostasis;785475]Meanwhile, you seem to say that the UN should be trusted explicitly, despite the evidence of corruption, simply because corruption is "normal" and to be expected.

Preposterous, I have said no such thing. Especially the "explicitly" you insert there.

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

I'll grant you corruption is a part of human nature. But it does not have to be simply accepted. It can be fought. And large organizations can attempt to fight it and control it. By and large, the UN has not done this, and therefore does not hold our trust.

Originally Posted by BigGaayAl

If you believe the UN is more corrupt, then any other large organisation, you have been had, by someone. The problem is, that someone has an agenda, I advise you to investigate what that agenda is.

Plz Don't twist my words and make me need to quote myself. You do not hold the same standards for the UN as your other information sources, clearly.

[Kerostasis]

Please don't twist my words either. I hold the UN to the same standards of conduct as any other organization. However, they do not meet those standards. Therefore I treat their pronouncements with less respect.

[deathknight]

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Would you care to explain how that is? I mean, yeah, I understand that there are African warlords that have gotten rich at the expense of the poor. But could you explain how you and I have gotten rich off the poor? How is it that our ability to afford luxuries (like spending much of our time at TG, or otherwise gaming) has caused someone else to be poor?


C'mon... The Oil for Food fraud reached to every single level of the United Nations. The ENTIRE organization was affected! Sure, Kofi's gone, but do you think that you can purge that sort of organizational mindset by just replacing the Secretary General? We saw Ban KiMoon get reined in during his FIRST week in office on the subject of the death penalty!

And I'll throw away information from any US politician. They're all slimy in one way or another... Thankfully, our government is set up in a way that provides checks and balances against abuses of power.

yea those checks and balances work real well, especially since the president can just ignore the constitution anytime he feels like

[Silas Ender]

Originally Posted by deathknight

yea those checks and balances work real well, especially since the president can just ignore the constitution anytime he feels like

Get over your own bitterness. Sorry you don't like the president, but he got elected. Whatever you may think, he cannot simply ignore the constitution. It's not like he went to war in Iraq without the approval of congress(Or the U.N. for that matter, though we don't need their permission to do anything ) . Can you cite an example of the current administration ignoring the constitution and getting away with it?

Feel free to elect the next Jimmy Carter come '08. And I'll be big enough to accept it rather than cry revolution for eight years.

[Lucky Shot]

George Bush wanted Warrantless Wiretaps for an extended period and Congress was grateful enough to give it to him. Check, Balance. That's what you get when you threaten a Democrat with taking away their vacation, pure capitulation.

Lucky Shot

[xTYBALTx]

Originally Posted by AMosely

You aren't as much misunderstanding this as you are applying the argument in the wrong perspective. All of my recent comments concerning prosperity, scarcity and the costs of both only pertain to the issue when viewed on a macroeconomic scale - the human race as a single entity, a single system over history. These comments do not apply to looking at a certain nation's economy, or the economics of your neighborhood, nor should they be taken literally so as to apply to your jobless neighbor scenario. Think of it this way - you and your jobless neighbor are both part of a local economy, which is part of a national economy, which is part of a regional (industrialized) economy, which is part of a global economy. My arguments speak mostly to that global scale, where the prosperity of some regional economies owes much to the manipulation and neglect of other regional economies.

I'm making these arguments in reaction to the opinion piece that Tybalt posted proclaiming the virtues of globalization as if it will bring prosperity for all. That line of thinking is untrue given the current realities of the global and human economy and the historical track record of economic manipulation and abuse by corporations, governments and financial NGO's such as the World Bank. For a first-hand account of what I am talking about, see John Perkins' books, such as 'Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.'

Again, this is my own opinion and I'm sure many disagree with it.

Economics = zero sum game.

[Kerostasis]

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

Economics = zero sum game.

Shouldn't there be a " ! " in there somewhere?

[xTYBALTx]

Either " | " or a "/sarcasm."

Or, I suppose, a "Пролетарии всех стран, соединяйтесь!"