El_Gringo_Grande

Rereading, I can see how unclear and confusing my post is.

I disagree that Ritter got front page coverage. At least not where I live. I don't think he, and others like him, got much good coverage. He may have been quoted and put on a few shows but, from what I remember, it was never taken seriously. I remember arguing with several co-workers at the time and they never heard of the guy. But they all knew the former Iraqi that provided some of the "proof" of a nuclear program.

This all relates to the Frontline story. A part of it basically says that the "News" failed to question/probe the propaganda that the administration put out to get support for the war. That there were leads that could have blown apart the case that the administration supported. But they where not followed up very well if at all. It points out that one new organization did conclude that Bush was simply wrong (Knight-Ridder I think) and it was able to do this with good basic reporting.

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thebleakaffinity

That's so stupid. How does someone's views being outside the mainstream have anything to do with their legitimacy? Popularity has no bearing on the relevance or quality of a person's opinions.

jepzilla

And he's famous for his eloquent defense of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, while they butchered Cambodia. Apparently he didn't think the numerous refugee eye-witness accounts were sufficient enough evidence to believe that perhaps the Khmer Rouge's public statements weren't a completely accurate portrayal of what was going on.

Chomsky is an ideologue, albeit a well-spoken and fairly well-informed one. But he's still an ideologue willing to overlook reality and facts where it doesn't fit with his vision of how the world is or should be. People who have relied on him in the past as an authority or a source have found themselves supporting some quite distastefull people.

Kerostasis

When one idea has 50% support and another has 45% support, popularity doesn't say much about legitimacy.

When one idea has 60% support and another has 30% support, popularity doesn't say much about legitimacy.

When one idea is brand new, and most people haven't even heard about yet and assume the other idea by default, popularity doesn't say much about legitimacy.

When one idea is 100 years old, has been tried in experiment several times and failed every single time, and has been considered, and rejected, by 99% of the population...does popularity STILL not matter? At this point, I'm inclined to believe it does.

Such is socialism.

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xTYBALTx

But in your example, Kero, popularity isn't the deciding factor. It isn't really a factor at all. Rather, it's the fact that one idea has been tried - and failed - numerous times which determines its' illegitimacy. For proof of this just look at the converse - if an idea had been tried in numerous experiments and failed miserably every single time, BUT it remained popular, would it be any more legitimate than the example you cited? I would say no.

Even your original passage permits this; you said that it was both outside the mainstream and illegitimate in your eyes. Such a statement, x is true AND y is true, does not in any way require a causal relationship between the two items x and y.

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Kerostasis

You said it better than I could say it myself. Thanks.

Yeah, so what I should have said is this: My opinion is not directed by popular opinion, my opinion is based on rejection of socialist ideals after critical analysis, and I was merely pointing out that popular opinion happens to mostly agree with me.

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Hambergler

All of this character assassination directed at Noam Chomsky is so trite.
He has been called so many things, it's ridiculous. Taking what he says or does to vilify him or put labels on him, is very easy to do. Understanding him is the difficult part. I have never once thought while listening to him that he was pushing a socialist agenda. He is just calling it like he sees it in the name of fairness and human rights. This kind of unapologetic honesty from such a brilliant mind is very rare. I think many people think he's crazy because he doesn't care who he is offending. And I'm pretty sure he has offended everyone at some point.

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Beatnik

Yeah but it's so much easier to disagree with something that someone says and write off any siubsequent position ad infinitum!

Back on topic, Part 2 airs tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

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War.mongeR1

Also remember that we have a sensasionalist press. It's a media saying that "If it bleeds, it leads." That's why they throw such a negative spin on the war. I don't know if there is an evil underlying liberal or conservative conspiracy at hand. It's just the media trying to sell newspapers and commercial time. If they displayed more positive things about the happenings in Iraq or nice heart-felt stories here in the states, it wouldn't be as successful. Atleast they believe that. That's why I don't believe much of what I see on TV. I take my accounts from the war from soldiers I've airlifted back home to the states. I'm a C-5 loadmaster and have transported back and forth 1000's of troops over the past few years. Also about 100 of our fallen soldiers. What an honor. I've talked to many of our finest men and women. We've swapped photographs via laptop and such. I've heard some great stories. It's so contradictory to what the media portrays. I'll take their word for it...NOT Cnn's or even Fox News. I do believe there is obvious biased reporting in the media, but I don't believe the current adminstration runs it. Otherwise we'd be hearing a much different spin. It's not so much liberal bias or conservative bias, more like negative bias.

An opposite way of reporting news is in China, where they have a propoganda ministry. Their news is controlled and monitored by their government. No freedom of the press, but atleast it's pleasant to read. They want to make China look wonderful and glorious. They're not so self-incriminating like we are. Check out one of their major news sites. As obviously biased as it may be, it's generally a breath of fresh air compared to our VERY negative news outlets.
http://www.chinaview.cn/index.htm

During WWII, was our press so against the war effort as they are now? I don't know since I wasn't alive back then, but my grandmother who was an army nurse at the time is very upset with the news today and all the American self-loathing that people like Chomski possess. I understand the need to be self-critical in order to improve, but war-time is the wrong time for that. War time should be a time for the counry to unite. Am I mistaken?

AMosely

This is well said, and you make a good point - except instead of 'negative' bias, I'd call it 'market' bias - the media is guided by an overarching sense of marketability, which, as you describe, is a shame.

I wouldn't call you mistaken, but I disagree with you. War should never by blindly accepted. It is a time for careful scrutiny - the very opposite of blind patriotism.

Regarding Chomsky, he goes far beyond any definition of American self-loathing, and far deeper than one or two layered questions regarding American policy. His interests, if you can call them that, are centered around social fairness and justice. If you want to know more about Chomsky's opinions on current events, you can check his blog at http://blog.zmag.org/blog/13. To really understand him, though, you need to read his books.

War.mongeR1

It is your very response that makes us one of the best countries in the world to be a part of. We are so blessed that we don't live in a fascist dictatorship where disagreement is a prisonable offense. Our congress is allowed to debate, people are allowed to protest, we can say whatever we want within reason and there are laws that protect our free speach. I mightily disagree with all the war protestors out their, but I'd give up my life in the defense of their right to do so. God Bless America.

AMosely

Which is why all citizens should thank you for your service regardless of their stand on the conflict of the day. Consider this one such thank-you, especially grateful for your positive identification of the principles that matter most.