Darfur and the growing issue

=MAXx= · 03-19-2007, 03:33 PM

<center>
Okay. You may be wondering... what's Darfur? A person? A movement? A religion? A place? The last one's correct. Darfur is a part of Sudan. Sudan is located in Africa.

Whats happening there??? One word. Genocide. Most of you have heard the word genocide, but some might not be exactly sure of what it means. Well, here's a clear definition for you-

Genocide:
noun
The deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

What exactly is going on? The genocide in Darfur has been going on for three years. People have been displaced, raped, tortured and slaughtered for three years. Since 2003, a group called the "Janjaweed" who are backed by the Sudanese government have been fighting two rebel groups in Sudan. These groups are the Sudanese Liberation Army/Movement [SLA/SLM] and the Justice and Equality Movement [JEM]. The rebels aim is to have Sudan's government address the underdevelopment and poverty issues of the region. Therefore, the Sudanese government is working together with the Janjaweed. They are targeting the civilian populations and main ethnic groups that the rebels obtain their support from. These groups are the Fur, Masalit and Zaghawa. Inncocent people from these groups are being executed. Sudan's own government is supporting the unjust slaughter of its own people. This is genocide. Its real. Its now.

If you have taken the time to read I thank you. God bless us all and may the day of tomorow bring us justice.

**CingularDuality** · 03-20-2007, 01:27 PM

Ummm, yeah. For more info, you might want to check Wikipedia's article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict

War.mongeR1 · 03-20-2007, 02:30 PM

This is a sad and horrible conflict. So many innocent lives being stolen. There are countless volunteers from the US and many many other countries trying to help. There are volunteer doctors, nurses, Red Cross personnel, etc. But what's messed up is that even the volunteers get messed with. I'd say our government should step in and help, BUT we tried to help in Somalia and look how that turned out. Warlords were taking the food/supplies meant for the starving masses. We try and step in to make sure the food gets to the people, and look how they showed their appreciation. By dragging our soldiers through the streets. It's a whole different world over there.

elcasey · 03-20-2007, 02:56 PM

There's two problems in Darfur, and these are why the US in particular and the West in general isn't going to step in and crack down on the Janjawid and the Sudanese government:

1) Sudan has oil

2) The West has a long track record of not caring about Africa...that's not going to change any time soon.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think either of the above is a valid reason to allow a people to be slaughtered, but Rwanda didn't even have an oil-rich government to protect and we stood by and allowed 800,000 people to be murdered.

We stood by and watched as Liberia decayed in a whirlwind of civil war, even as both sides explicitly stated, "All you have to do is put troops on the ground in Monrovia and we will stop fighting." Why didn't we do that? Well, we sent troops...a squad of Marines to guard the embassy's beer shipment (I'm dead serious).

The callous attitude of the West toward Africa (indifference in the case of the US, outright colonialist attitude in the case of many European former colonial powers) has led me to become fascinated with the place, especially West Africa. Quite strange that the most peaceful region of Africa has now become the most war-torn. But that's where you find good stories worth writing!

Almost every African I have ever met has been absolutely marvelous. Highly-educated, humble and extremely interesting. Africans are strong, and they have no illusions about applying force to achieve results, be it on offense or defense. I was initially drawn to speak to some of them while I was living in Moscow, as there are a lot of African students studying in Russian universities (and I was doing the same). They really get treated badly by Russians and Russia still suffers from an ingrained cultural and institutionalized racism that is a black mark on the national character (I'm absolutely in love with Russia and its people, mind you). But that these Africans came to Russia to study and found life there, even being overtly treated as second-class persons, to be better than in their home countries was, to me, very telling.

The West has dropped the ball with Africa. Shame on us.

War.mongeR1 · 03-20-2007, 03:40 PM

How can the West solve their problems without completely conquering and taking over? They go through leaders like water over there. There is very little stability. Their culture takes carpe diem to a whole new extreme and children will pick up an AK-47 to do so. I don't see what we could do. Especially since we're tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. It's sad to see how these countries have deteriorated. For example, Somalia used to be one of the most fertile and richest kingdoms in the world...a long long time ago. Africa may be great again one day, but I don't think it's going to be in our life times.

And you can't say the West has dropped the ball with Africa, because the West has poured trillions of dollars into the black hole of Africa. Look at all of Bonos efforts. Look at all of the charity concerts. Look at our tax dollars sent over there with the Governments contributions. We send tons and tons of money over there and it just ends up in a warlords hands. We send food and aid over there, and once again it doesn't end up where it should.

And just so you know, we have done some good over there recently. I have personally been to Djibouti many times, because we have Marines and Air Force there. The locals love us there, because the French have been there so long and have just used them. We have come in the last few years and have established free schools, clinics, and helped them out a ton. I don't think things would go over as smoothly in Sudan or Rwanda, though. Too much fighting going on.

This is how things happen in Africa:
1) Dictator A starts genocide killing off the opposition
2) Opposition somehow overthrows Dictator A
3) Dictator B gets in power and gets back at Dictator A's people, starting Genocide all over again
4) The cycle thus continues

Santa · 03-20-2007, 08:32 PM

I believe the main reason we dont do much in Africa is deep rooted racism. In the 90s, as soon as the Baltics flared up we came in and helped. Of course, these were white people we helped. But what do we do when tensions flare up in Africa, where hardly any white people are?

Mongeror, yes we have poured a lot of money into those countries. But what the hell for? Most if not all of the aid and money goes directly to the dictators. We need an actual presence there if we are going to get anything done. I recall something on the history channel a while back where a mercenary team of 300 some odd soldiers went to Sierra Leone. That small force was able to hold off a rebellion or stop a genocide...i cant really remember which, but the point is that we dont need many forces there to make a difference.

War.mongeR1 · 03-20-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santa

I believe the main reason we dont do much in Africa is deep rooted racism. In the 90s, as soon as the Baltics flared up we came in and helped. Of course, these were white people we helped. But what do we do when tensions flare up in Africa, where hardly any white people are?

I guess you might be too young to remember, but how can you say this when during the Bosnian civil war, we had the whole "Black Hawk Down" incident in Mogadishu, Somalia? We have tried to help African nations. We promptly got booted back out of Somalia, though.

Kerostasis · 03-20-2007, 11:59 PM

Why exactly do you call it a "growing" issue? They've been fighting for four full years now, and reported on the US news for most of that, and if anything the war is subsiding now, not growing. The last entry on the Wikipedia chronology of the war is a January '07 ceasefire agreement that seems to be holding so far.

03-19-2007, 03:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
=MAXx= Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: somewhere in between heaven and hell. Miami Posts: 405	Darfur and the growing issue <center> Okay. You may be wondering... what's Darfur? A person? A movement? A religion? A place? The last one's correct. Darfur is a part of Sudan. Sudan is located in Africa. Whats happening there??? One word. <b>Genocide</b>. Most of you have heard the word genocide, but some might not be exactly sure of what it means. Well, here's a clear definition for you- Genocide: <i>noun</i> The deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group. What exactly is going on? The genocide in Darfur has been going on for <u>three years</u>. People have been displaced, raped, tortured and slaughtered for three years. Since 2003, a group called the "Janjaweed" who are backed by the Sudanese government have been fighting two rebel groups in Sudan. These groups are the Sudanese Liberation Army/Movement [SLA/SLM] and the Justice and Equality Movement [JEM]. The rebels aim is to have Sudan's government address the underdevelopment and poverty issues of the region. Therefore, the Sudanese government is working together with the Janjaweed. They are targeting the civilian populations and main ethnic groups that the rebels obtain their support from. These groups are the Fur, Masalit and Zaghawa. Inncocent people from these groups are being executed. Sudan's own government is supporting the unjust slaughter of its own people. This is genocide. Its real. Its now. If you have taken the time to read I thank you. God bless us all and may the day of tomorow bring us justice. __________________ After a hard long day on the battlefield, you just wanna play some ball but some idiot wont let you because he has an explosive bag of pitchers' powder.... Last edited by =MAXx=; 03-19-2007 at 03:36 PM. Reason: i mest it up

03-20-2007, 01:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,637	Re: Darfur and the growing issue Ummm, yeah. For more info, you might want to check Wikipedia's article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darfur_conflict __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

03-20-2007, 02:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
War.mongeR1 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,210	Re: Darfur and the growing issue This is a sad and horrible conflict. So many innocent lives being stolen. There are countless volunteers from the US and many many other countries trying to help. There are volunteer doctors, nurses, Red Cross personnel, etc. But what's messed up is that even the volunteers get messed with. I'd say our government should step in and help, BUT we tried to help in Somalia and look how that turned out. Warlords were taking the food/supplies meant for the starving masses. We try and step in to make sure the food gets to the people, and look how they showed their appreciation. By dragging our soldiers through the streets. It's a whole different world over there. __________________ "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

03-20-2007, 02:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
elcasey Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Age: 28 Posts: 30	Re: Darfur and the growing issue There's two problems in Darfur, and these are why the US in particular and the West in general isn't going to step in and crack down on the Janjawid and the Sudanese government: 1) Sudan has oil 2) The West has a long track record of not caring about Africa...that's not going to change any time soon. Don't get me wrong, I don't think either of the above is a valid reason to allow a people to be slaughtered, but Rwanda didn't even have an oil-rich government to protect and we stood by and allowed 800,000 people to be murdered. We stood by and watched as Liberia decayed in a whirlwind of civil war, even as both sides explicitly stated, "All you have to do is put troops on the ground in Monrovia and we will stop fighting." Why didn't we do that? Well, we sent troops...a squad of Marines to guard the embassy's beer shipment (I'm dead serious). The callous attitude of the West toward Africa (indifference in the case of the US, outright colonialist attitude in the case of many European former colonial powers) has led me to become fascinated with the place, especially West Africa. Quite strange that the most peaceful region of Africa has now become the most war-torn. But that's where you find good stories worth writing! Almost every African I have ever met has been absolutely marvelous. Highly-educated, humble and extremely interesting. Africans are strong, and they have no illusions about applying force to achieve results, be it on offense or defense. I was initially drawn to speak to some of them while I was living in Moscow, as there are a lot of African students studying in Russian universities (and I was doing the same). They really get treated badly by Russians and Russia still suffers from an ingrained cultural and institutionalized racism that is a black mark on the national character (I'm absolutely in love with Russia and its people, mind you). But that these Africans came to Russia to study and found life there, even being overtly treated as second-class persons, to be better than in their home countries was, to me, very telling. The West has dropped the ball with Africa. Shame on us. __________________ -=Эл Кейси=- За Родину!

03-20-2007, 03:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
War.mongeR1 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1,210	Re: Darfur and the growing issue How can the West solve their problems without completely conquering and taking over? They go through leaders like water over there. There is very little stability. Their culture takes carpe diem to a whole new extreme and children will pick up an AK-47 to do so. I don't see what we could do. Especially since we're tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan right now. It's sad to see how these countries have deteriorated. For example, Somalia used to be one of the most fertile and richest kingdoms in the world...a long long time ago. Africa may be great again one day, but I don't think it's going to be in our life times. And you can't say the West has dropped the ball with Africa, because the West has poured trillions of dollars into the black hole of Africa. Look at all of Bonos efforts. Look at all of the charity concerts. Look at our tax dollars sent over there with the Governments contributions. We send tons and tons of money over there and it just ends up in a warlords hands. We send food and aid over there, and once again it doesn't end up where it should. And just so you know, we have done some good over there recently. I have personally been to Djibouti many times, because we have Marines and Air Force there. The locals love us there, because the French have been there so long and have just used them. We have come in the last few years and have established free schools, clinics, and helped them out a ton. I don't think things would go over as smoothly in Sudan or Rwanda, though. Too much fighting going on. This is how things happen in Africa: 1) Dictator A starts genocide killing off the opposition 2) Opposition somehow overthrows Dictator A 3) Dictator B gets in power and gets back at Dictator A's people, starting Genocide all over again 4) The cycle thus continues __________________ "Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

03-20-2007, 08:32 PM	#6 (permalink)
Santa Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Age: 18 Posts: 3,355	Re: Darfur and the growing issue I believe the main reason we dont do much in Africa is deep rooted racism. In the 90s, as soon as the Baltics flared up we came in and helped. Of course, these were white people we helped. But what do we do when tensions flare up in Africa, where hardly any white people are? Mongeror, yes we have poured a lot of money into those countries. But what the hell for? Most if not all of the aid and money goes directly to the dictators. We need an actual presence there if we are going to get anything done. I recall something on the history channel a while back where a mercenary team of 300 some odd soldiers went to Sierra Leone. That small force was able to hold off a rebellion or stop a genocide...i cant really remember which, but the point is that we dont need many forces there to make a difference.

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