deathknight

well written post

i don't like any of the pols runnin for president not so much because of them but because of the system where they won't say what they mean but what the ppl they are talkin to want to hear

i believe it is called kerrying or pandering

but it seems that the pols who will speak their mind are extremists

i wasn't a huge gore fan and am not now but i've developed alot more respect for him after seeing him on some interview programs such as The Daily Show and after he hosted SNL

but he is a pol too and would probably have played similar games while in office - too what extent we will never know

i'd just like to see a good middle of the road candidate who can get stuff done like clinton did - i know clinton wasn't the most moral of men, i hear he's pretty oral tho ... oh good one

but at least he could get stuff done working with a congress controlled by the opposite party - yea he played politics they all do but he could get stuff done and that's what we need now ppl who can get down to business and fix stuff and not have press conferences making idle threats

that press conference reference is too the dems as well as the president

ScratchMonkey

For some of us, "getting stuff done" is what we don't want. We like gridlock, because it keeps those busybodies from screwing us over with their interference.

Clinton was successful at "working with a congress controlled by the opposite party" because they shared common ends: Messing with other people's lives. Their differences weren't in the overall goal, but on which part of our lives to focus on screwing up first.

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Aspie

I hate to bring a harshly negative attitude to the discussion, but Ron Paul is a hack. His policies are impractical. Traditional Republicans see him as a lunatic, new-age Republicans see him as a lunatic, and his supporters have earned him the reputation as an extremist with no respect for the political process.

I bring to attention the internet polls which have been repeatedly hacked and exploited by Paul supporters. There are a variety of ways to gain publicity for your candidate of choice, but foul play will destroy the ligitimacy of any such attempts.

I am a moderate economic conservative with libertarian social leanings. While Ron Paul would rest in the same quadrant of the political compass as me, I do not see him as a stable politician or rational leader. Most of the Republican candidates rest in the top right quadrant, unfortunately (economic freedom, social regulation), while most of the Democrats running are in the top left (economic regulation, social regulation). For those of us seeking individual freedom and smaller government, the selection is lacking. I'd rather elect a good leader who has different views than someone of the same mind who could not handle office.

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xTYBALTx

Aspie - Every mainstream presidential candidate this year, from both parties, is a pretty hardcore authoritarian. The only one who may escape this classification is Obama. But with each passing week, he seems to sprout out new wacky ideas. Our selection is extremely weak this year.

I want to vote for Bush 2000 - not to be confused with Bush 2001. Or Forbes 2000. Bring me one of those guys. They actually believed in letting people do SOME things themselves.

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Aspie

Aye. None of the candidates have me excited at this point. It seems like authoritarians on both sides (social conservatives and socialists) have hijacked their respective parties. Men like Edwards frighten me with their "Two Nations" rhetoric, while Brownback and co. are looking to restrict our personal freedoms.

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"It’s not like I was pounding 40’s with my 'homies' on the stoop."
-Pfeil2281

ScratchMonkey

Examples? Most libertarian positions (such as drug re-legalization) were considered fringe 30 years ago and now are considered legitimate positions.

When you're disenfranchised by the "political process", you find some other way to be heard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Access_News
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_access

Evidence?

It looks to me more like Paul supporters are just more Internet-savvy and more likely to vote in Internet polls than their old-media competitors.

I'd be much more inclined to think that the old parties are rigging actual elections. They already rig ballot access.

Paul has been repeatedly re-elected to his Congressional seat, even after a run on the Libertarian ticket. Apparently his Texas constituents think he's qualified for office.

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TheFatKidDeath

It's amazing, but not hardly surprisingly, to watch the Republican candidates try and out do each other on who is the most ignorant on foreign and domestic policy.

It's a laughable assortment of clowns who have learned nothing from the last seven years.

However, I would agree with Ron Paul and his view on Iraq. Ironically, it's a few Republicans that are taking charge and opposing this disaster called Iraq.

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Kerostasis

Hence why you presumably vote in the Democratic primary, rather than the Republican one?

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TheFatKidDeath

I'm equally disgusted with the Democratic party and to an extent the candidates and their positions, specifically, Iraq.

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"Born to Party, Forced to Work."
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deathknight

well if you haven't notice this country is seriously broken and while i don't want government telling me what i can and can't do, it is necessary for government to do that, as that is the nature of government

ScratchMonkey

Yep, too many busybodies.

That it is the nature of government to try to micromanage us doesn't mean that it is necessary for it to do so.

That it is the nature of wild animals to eat our babies doesn't mean that we must let them do so.

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Steeler

I have never understood this "libertarian" value of maintaining the status quo. Gridlock is good because it prevents government from doing harm? I thought that was a joke, but now I see it bandied about as actual policy. Just in the past six years we've seen very graphically how a deadlocked and ineffective Congress can breed an environment where ideologues in the executive can manipulate our civic institutions to their own ends.

I would think that the goal would be to make all branches of government more responsive, more accountable to the citizenry.

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deathknight

i agree - i think government should do what we as private citizens cannot do such as regulate commerce, raise an army/navy, etc

but the problem is that their always will be differences in opinions on where the line that should separate government influence from private life should be drawn

i don't mind government messing in my life to a degree as long as it does something useful but if you are a hard-working, tax paying, non wealthy, non-connected citizen the government does nothing for you

xTYBALTx

Wha?

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ScratchMonkey

Government is the sole entity that we allow to use force preemptively. All other entities in our society can, at best, use force legally only in self defense.

So the question is what uses of preemptive force are acceptable? Is it ok to use preemptive force for social engineering, such as dealing with poverty or lack of education? Is it ok to use preemptive force to "tweak" the economy to make up for what one might think is an economic failure? (Example: Chrysler bail-out.) Many people seem to think so, and differ only in where they want to focus that force first.

For me, the only acceptable use of force is self defense, to allow people to be left alone. (Admittedly this still leaves a lot of questions, and you can find libertarian journals full of analysis on how to apply this principle. It's a mistake to suggest that this prescription is "simple".)

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