Ferris Bueller

Healthcare is fine. Insurance companies, HMO's, PPO's and all of that other crap is what's messed up.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

El_Gringo_Grande

And you think you can seperate Healthcare from those entities? How?

__________________
Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

stickyjeans69

he can seperate them because they are two different things.

When you go to a hospital and the insurance says, you didnt tell us first so we wont pay for your ambulance ride. it is the fault of your insurance provider the ambulance company can not be blamed.

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Ferris Bueller

Someone who understands, thank you.
Yes, I can separate them. Insurance and healthcare are not the same. I provide healthcare all day long. I dont work for an insurance company. They dont pay my bills. They're an industry that is a branch of the consumer arm. So how are they separate?
Simple:
The level of care I provide for you as a HEALTHCARE professional is in no way effected by your background, race, creed, gender, religion, socioeconomic status, location, nationality or anything else, much less your insurance. THAT is how they are separate.
Ergo, healthcare is fine. The insurance system is jacked up.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

El_Gringo_Grande

I know they are different things but realistically how can you seperate them.

How many people can afford healthcare without insurance? If you can't afford it then it effectivly does not exist.

So how can you seperate them?

__________________
Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

Ferris Bueller

See, heres the problem: you see it as "you have to pay for medical care". Thats entirely untrue. I can name off at least 6 free clinics in Orlando alone, 3 of which will provide emergency care as well as extended care for a very very small charge (around $200 a week). If you cant afford insurance, there are options, you just have to be smart and responsible enough to find them.

Besides, you seem like you missed the post where I pointed out how they are indeed two separate entities. Neither is required for the other to exist. Medicine has been practiced for thousands of years, and for many of those there was no insurance.

Furthermore, there are literally thousands of options for medical coverage, many provided by employers, so wheres the problem in getting medical insurance?

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

MoreGooder

I haven't seen the movie yet. I'm waiting for it to hit Blockbusters, and I likely wont have to wait very long at all. But, I've already read a ton about this in anticipation for viewing it.

Since when did it become OK for doctors to live in mult-million dollar estates? Since when did the doctor's parking lot contain nothing but cars >50K? Long ago. It's somehow expected. It's somehow OK. It's somehow UNETHICAL. I'm not suggesting that doctors should live in shacks. I'm saying that doctors should be paid fairly for PUBLIC SERVICE.

I'm not even going to touch the Pharmaceutical industry. I just don't have the mental energy to tackle that much greed in one sitting.

WE have let this system erode. It's time to take it back. It's time to make health care equal to all, regardless of financial ability. Start viewing your fellow man as a valuable resource rather than an obstacle to move out of the way, ........ or dump onto the street.

Ferris,

I understood everything that you wrote in your post. However, the system is still broken. It was broken before you were born. The reason? GREED. It is no one's fault but our own for sustaining this system of dollars=healthy, where it should be citizen=healthy. Healthy does not mean "emergency room stabilized". You're in major debt and living with a family member because school is expensive. So, who's fault is that? Not yours. That's another social ill that needs to be fixed.

And, regarding free or extremely affordable health care options you mentioned. Yup, true. BUT, the VAST majority of Americans cannot take advantage of this because we have jobs with CRAPTACULAR health care plans that have rediculous out of pocket expenses and huge deductibles.

Just as in the higher education system, health care is not a financial burdon if your dirt poor or fabulously wealthy.

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Sometimes I feel like 2/3'rds Rice Krispies. Past "Snap" and "Crackle" but just shy of "Pop"!

UnDeaD77

Small charge of 200$ a week? Wow, thats not cheap on my end.

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Ferris Bueller

Ok, so on those lines, why hasnt Michael Moore made a movie decrying the evils of the educational system, talking about how teachers dont get paid crap?

Sure, doctors make a lot of money. Hell, when I get my loans paid off in a couple years, I'll be breaking 6 figures as a nurse with no problem. But as i pointed out, it's a reward industry. We work our asses off for what we get paid and have to live with the fallout. How many of you who are not in military service have had to watch someone die? How many of you have had to face the family of the person you watched die and tell them that their loved one wont be coming home? I get to do that several times a week. I get to live with every ounce of pain those people feel, plus the personal feelings of failure because I feel responsible for being unable to save them. Thats why we get paid the way we do.

And sure undead, 200 bucks a week isnt really cheap, but it is compared to major hospitals if you dont have insuraqnce, but this all goes back to what I said about planning ahead. $100 a month for insurance or $200 a week because you didnt have the wherewithal to go find coverage...your call.

Now I'm going to game some. I'll be back for more debating later.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

UnDeaD77

I'm moving to Canada.

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MoreGooder

Yes, the health insurance industry is largely to blaim for this. Follow the dollars. The money flow starts right there.

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Sometimes I feel like 2/3'rds Rice Krispies. Past "Snap" and "Crackle" but just shy of "Pop"!

El_Gringo_Grande

200 dollars a week is a very small charge? Wow. Well I guess for what is normally charged at a hospital that is very small. And that 200 dollars gets you the same level of care as a well insured person would get? Does it cover medication, tests, scans and all the other goodies? Is it subsidized by the government?

But it is going to cost some cash. And it isn't ever going to be cheap. There is just no way around that.

Ok, they are separate. And health care is good enough. But they are both a part of the healthcare system.

I think healthcares primary problem it is a common good service that is driven by profit. Those things are very hard to get to work together.

__________________
Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

MoreGooder

Ferris,

Let me understand this correctly. You believe that because your job can be greusome that you should make 6 figures? How 'bout the guy cleaning the traps at the sewage waste facility. Would you want his job? How 'bout the guy that has to slit the throats of thousands of cattle every day at the meat packing plant. Think he makes 6 figs? (sidenote: I worked in a slaughter house for two summer breaks. It was disturbing to watch)

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Sometimes I feel like 2/3'rds Rice Krispies. Past "Snap" and "Crackle" but just shy of "Pop"!

El_Gringo_Grande

I agree with this guy. Watch "Dirty Jobs" and you will see there are a lot of people doing very nasty things for much less money.

And the clergy deal with the grieving all the time for much less money.

And here in Okie Homy RNs do not get six figures. Closer to 45-50k. They get half what you get and deal with the same issues.

No, you get that pay because that is what the market allows. Not saying that is a bad thing but insurance allows the market to pay you that much. Get rid of insurance and your pay goes way down.

If you are a great nurse and you quit because you have to live off of what the patient can actually pay you does health care then suffer?

Can you see a way to keep the level of care to what it currently is without the insurance industry or government involved? (And both are a wealth redistribution system.)

__________________
Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

snooggums

The real problem with the costs of health care in the US is that the poor who are the most likely to have chronic health problems because of lack of regular basic health care are the ones who cannot afford the health care they need. 200 bucks a week is still a lot for someone who only gets 1200 a month for a disability. Some states offer medical cards, but the requirements are a bit harsh, you have to make dirt to qualify. Ferris is correct about the insurance being the broken part, but here's my logic:

Insurance should not be a profit generating business. It is supposed to mitigate disaster costs, spread amongst the people who pay into it. If there is money it should be kept for future disasters, not to pay stockholders. This is why I support national health care, people should be able to get health care out of paying taxes. It should still be discounted for those who cannot afford to pay, and those who can pay more can pay more to have healthier people around them. This is one of the few things that should be supported by the government, Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness (or property depending on the version). Overall it would be cheaper to have regular checkups for everyone and cut off the majority of high cost emergency health related problems.

And I will state now and let someone prove it later, the guy stitching up his own knee was most likely staged. I don't have to see the movie to know that chunky monkey does that regularly. Remember the gun being handed over by the bank teller in the gun movie? Not even close to reality.