If support then why not serve? - Page 5

Hambergler · 08-04-2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

I missed this the last time I hit this thread.

The reason you missed it Is because you read it the way I wrote it. The second time you read it, was after someone spun it for you with racism. These are the same people who get scared in a black neighborhood and then feel guilty about it. People who point fingers calling people racists are the main catalyst of racism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

This is the most ignorant thing I've read in a long time. What makes you think that the man behind the counter with the accent hasn't worked his whole life to live the American dream?

He could have. I never said he didn't. I simply stated there is more support for the American military from Americans rather then foreigners. If you want to call that ignorant I'm rubber your glue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Every day I see people like YOU that take their citizenship for granted, and every day I see people that have worked (or are working) their ass off just to become a US Citizen.

Guess what. I am a foreigner. Being from Latvia a former Soviet block country I have experienced an enormous amount of "patriotic" discrimination during the cold war. My grand parents would not even let me speak Russian in public because they were afraid they would be investigated for being spies. And who can blame them. All my families factories were stolen and over half my family was murdered by either nazis or communists. My grandfather saw his brothers shot in front of him while they were literally jumping over a fence to escape a concentration camp. I was named after one of them. On my birth certificate it says Jew. And not because they cared. We were allowed a hundred dollars each and they even counted how many socks we took with us. You would be hard pressed to find a family that has accomplished as much as my family has in the 28 years we have been here. Foreign or domestic. You say you see people like ME everyday; before you jump on the PC bandwagon you should at least get your profiling straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

The folks that have naturalized from countries that we consider to be terrorist nations are often the most vocal supporters of the US Armed Forces that I've ever met. They KNOW what it's like in those countries and they know what needs to be done.

That's an interesting perspective from someone in the armed forces who is in charge of kicking people out of the country. I would imagine no one is burning any American flags when you show up.

BTW I don't consider any nation a terrorist nation. You said that. Someone call the PC police. Since we are on the topic of Pakistan and you have called them a terrorist nation. And you seem to know what needs to be done there? The world would like to know, especially Pakistan. Please share.

**CingularDuality** · 08-04-2007, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambergler

The reason you missed it Is because you read it the way I wrote it. The second time you read it, was after someone spun it for you with racism.

Please explain how you meant it, then, because I'm not seeing any "nice" way to spin what you said.

Quote:

Guess what. I am a foreigner...You say you see people like ME everyday; before you jump on the PC bandwagon you should at least get your profiling straight.

Guess what? I don't care if you're a foreigner. You've evidently integrated into the American culture so much so that you've taken your citizenship for granted. Me? PC? That's a riot!

Quote:

BTW I don't consider any nation a terrorist nation. You said that. Someone call the PC police. Since we are on the topic of Pakistan and you have called them a terrorist nation. And you seem to know what needs to be done there? The world would like to know, especially Pakistan. Please share.

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Libya, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen are all considered by the United States of America to be "Special Interest" countries, meaning that they export, train, or otherwise support terrorists, whether intentional or not.

Hambergler · 08-04-2007, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Please explain how you meant it, then, because I'm not seeing any "nice" way to spin what you said.

I'll say it again. I simply stated there is more support for the American military from Americans rather then foreigners. The difference is that you consider those countries terrorist nations and that is the spin. If I had said French guy would you have the same reaction? No. Since I said Pakistani, you heard terrorist and was accusing me of profiling, but in fact it is you who is profiling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Guess what? I don't care if you're a foreigner. You've evidently integrated into the American culture so much so that you've taken your citizenship for granted. Me? PC? That's a riot!

I have worked my ass off to become an American citizen and an upstanding American to take it for granted. Yeah OK that makes sense. Why don't you go tell that to someone with their hand out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Egypt, Eritrea, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Libya, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen are all considered by the United States of America to be "Special Interest" countries, meaning that they export, train, or otherwise support terrorists, whether intentional or not.

We trained the WTC bombers to fly. So I guess we are a "special interest" country.

Calling these countries out is simple prejudice. It seems that you go one step further by calling them terrorist nations, when in fact they are just Muslim countries with cultures that you could never and will never understand. That is where fear comes from.

**CingularDuality** · 08-04-2007, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambergler

I'll say it again.

Do you have a point? If you're just going to rant because I assumed that you were born here, I apologize if that offended you and let's move on to some rational discussion.

Hey, maybe we could even have some on-topic discussion!

Hambergler · 08-04-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Do you have a point? If you're just going to rant because I assumed that you were born here, I apologize if that offended you and let's move on to some rational discussion.

Hey, maybe we could even have some on-topic discussion!

Why would I be offended because you assumed I was born here, my point was that I have gone through all the tribulations that you were accusing me of being callus towards. I have nothing but respect for someone that wants to come here and take a piece of the American Pie.

Rant/off

The reason they don't aren't going to Iraq is because they don't support the war that much!

There is chivalry in everyone spending a year or two in the military in order to keep their citizenship. It's not going to stop anyone from being a doctor or lawyer, unless they get killed of course. I wonder what would have happened in Iraq if this was the case. It makes everyone accountable with their lives instead of their mouths and wallets.

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 08-05-2007, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambergler

We trained the WTC bombers to fly. So I guess we are a "special interest" country.

Calling these countries out is simple prejudice. It seems that you go one step further by calling them terrorist nations, when in fact they are just Muslim countries with cultures that you could never and will never understand. That is where fear comes from.

Source? Source on this outlandish crap? Yes, we know they used pilot lessons in what, florida? But did the USA knowingly train men to kill its own citizens?

Oh, and about the black neighborhood thing...Would it occur to you that maybe I'm black myself? If you are assuming I was white, then you sir, are just assuming...

**CingularDuality** · 08-05-2007, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer

If you are assuming I was white, then you sir, are just assuming...

LOL! I'm sorry, but that just hit my funny bone... Thanks!

TheFatKidDeath · 08-05-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatCobra

You saying that if you support the war, you should serve?

Not everyone who supports the war can serve due to medical condition, age or some other deferment reason. Many Americans joined the military after 911 out of patriotism and to "bring the fight to the terrorists" and who are now fighting in Iraq and Afganistan for that belief.

However, generally speaking, the most ardent supporters of this disaster simply are not serving but sitting state side while their fellow citizens are blown up by IED's and sniped by Jhidists.

Hambergler · 08-05-2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer

Source? Source on this outlandish crap? Yes, we know they used pilot lessons in what, florida? But did the USA knowingly train men to kill its own citizens?

Oh, and about the black neighborhood thing...Would it occur to you that maybe I'm black myself? If you are assuming I was white, then you sir, are just assuming...

Then intentionally or unintentionally you must be a terrorist.

Atomic Dog · 08-05-2007, 09:25 PM

@Ham, and everyone really (with nothing but respect, don't read this wrong)

Whoah...I'll tell you what. Some black neighborhoods scare me just as much as some white neighborhoods. I'm with you on the idea that SOME muslim nations have been unfairly branded as terrorist nations. But I think when we walk around with our fingers pointed, it's hard to see where the ignorance really is...no matter what you support or how you support it.

I've grown up in so many different hoods (the scary kind...with real live crack dealers). I am not white. Really, I'm not much of anything, but a lot of many. I happen to be mixed. I could tell a thousand stories of discrimination from not just white people, but mexican people, black people, asians, etc. Ignorance is universal, it doesn't know color. Only people see color. I'm not sure in the beginning that racism had anything to do with American desire for war. I think most Americans, like myself, felt personally attacked on 9/11 and nothing satisfied us more than a clear and identified enemy. Unfortunately, after Afghanistan, we were tricked into seeing someone nowhere near the incident as our enemy and ultimately let the REAL enemy slip away. Sad.

The real problem with this war isn't what's happening over there...it's how divided our nation has become. A once GREAT nation. Still is. We bicker about this subject as if we don't agree. We don't agree. I hate this war. I hate everything it stands for. What I hate more, and this happened to me, is when two Americans discuss this subject in any intellectual way and one becomes offended to the point that he feels the need to pull a weapon on the other for the sake of "patriotism!?" I WAS BORN HERE! Where does this end? Iraq? Afghanistan? Here? How divided must we be before we realize that the only nation that should matter to us, the only people who should matter to us, first and foremost is indeed...US!

Sorry to rant. I've enjoyed the day a bit much and something about this thread just sent me off.

But seriously, let's not get divided here too.

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 08-05-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

...it's how divided our nation has become. A once GREAT nation.

Thank you for saying that.

Regardless of how anybody feels about the reasons for war, involvement in foreign affairs, or anything else...

What really matters is that soldiers answer the call of thier nation, even when they dont agree. They put thier lives on the line every day. That is honor. Such self sacrifice should NEVER be forgotten. No matter what my standing on the war is, I respect and honor those who serve. Because I believe serving is going beyond yourself. Living for something larger than you may ever be yourself.

Hambergler · 08-05-2007, 10:46 PM

It is amazing and truly astonishing how so many people can interpret the same posts in soooo many different ways. Unbelievable! I think lack of inflection, environment, vibe, mind and mood altering substances, local culture, personal microcosms, ego, facial expressions and body language all contribute to meanings being lost in translation. I think I am usually sensitive to these barriers and post with them in mind, but on occasion discussions get heated or misinterpreted and I loose site of these limitations. And before you know it I am focused on making points and loose touch with the delicate writing style that needs to be used to get my points understood.

I can see how things I have said have come across like a tirade, been misinterpreted and have offended people. And I apologize for that. I'll try to be more sensitive to this medium and watch how I say things.

Atomic Dog · 08-05-2007, 10:49 PM

Hey man, your cool. I've just spent too much of the day inhebriated. Carry on!

AMosely · 08-06-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambergler

It is amazing and truly astonishing how so many people can interpret the same posts in soooo many different ways. Unbelievable!

Welcome to the sandbox!

**CingularDuality** · 08-06-2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hambergler

It is amazing and truly astonishing how so many people can interpret the same posts in soooo many different ways. Unbelievable! I think lack of inflection, environment, vibe, mind and mood altering substances, local culture, personal microcosms, ego, facial expressions and body language all contribute to meanings being lost in translation. I think I am usually sensitive to these barriers and post with them in mind, but on occasion discussions get heated or misinterpreted and I loose site of these limitations. And before you know it I am focused on making points and loose touch with the delicate writing style that needs to be used to get my points understood.

Ain't that the truth... Text is a very poor method of communication, really. That's why our lawbooks are so huge, as it takes a lot of text to explain exactly what is intended.

08-05-2007, 09:25 PM	#70 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 4,106	Re: If support then why not serve? @Ham, and everyone really (with nothing but respect, don't read this wrong) Whoah...I'll tell you what. Some black neighborhoods scare me just as much as some white neighborhoods. I'm with you on the idea that SOME muslim nations have been unfairly branded as terrorist nations. But I think when we walk around with our fingers pointed, it's hard to see where the ignorance really is...no matter what you support or how you support it. I've grown up in so many different hoods (the scary kind...with real live crack dealers). I am not white. Really, I'm not much of anything, but a lot of many. I happen to be mixed. I could tell a thousand stories of discrimination from not just white people, but mexican people, black people, asians, etc. Ignorance is universal, it doesn't know color. Only people see color. I'm not sure in the beginning that racism had anything to do with American desire for war. I think most Americans, like myself, felt personally attacked on 9/11 and nothing satisfied us more than a clear and identified enemy. Unfortunately, after Afghanistan, we were tricked into seeing someone nowhere near the incident as our enemy and ultimately let the REAL enemy slip away. Sad. The real problem with this war isn't what's happening over there...it's how divided our nation has become. A once GREAT nation. Still is. We bicker about this subject as if we don't agree. We don't agree. I hate this war. I hate everything it stands for. What I hate more, and this happened to me, is when two Americans discuss this subject in any intellectual way and one becomes offended to the point that he feels the need to pull a weapon on the other for the sake of "patriotism!?" I WAS BORN HERE! Where does this end? Iraq? Afghanistan? Here? How divided must we be before we realize that the only nation that should matter to us, the only people who should matter to us, first and foremost is indeed...US! Sorry to rant. I've enjoyed the day a bit much and something about this thread just sent me off. But seriously, let's not get divided here too. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \|

08-05-2007, 10:46 PM	#72 (permalink)
Hambergler Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Age: 34 Posts: 1,124	Re: If support then why not serve? It is amazing and truly astonishing how so many people can interpret the same posts in soooo many different ways. Unbelievable! I think lack of inflection, environment, vibe, mind and mood altering substances, local culture, personal microcosms, ego, facial expressions and body language all contribute to meanings being lost in translation. I think I am usually sensitive to these barriers and post with them in mind, but on occasion discussions get heated or misinterpreted and I loose site of these limitations. And before you know it I am focused on making points and loose touch with the delicate writing style that needs to be used to get my points understood. I can see how things I have said have come across like a tirade, been misinterpreted and have offended people. And I apologize for that. I'll try to be more sensitive to this medium and watch how I say things. __________________

08-05-2007, 10:49 PM	#73 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 4,106	Re: If support then why not serve? Hey man, your cool. I've just spent too much of the day inhebriated. Carry on! __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \|

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