Atomic Dog

Wow. Those are interesting figures! Thanks for bringing that to the discussion.

__________________

Silas Ender

It is not the government's job to "bring wealth into the poorest neighborhoods", but for those in the poorest neighborhoods to earn it. Do you honestly think that stuffing money into their hands is a viable/beneficial option? It's hardly fair to ask the wealthy to give the money that they have worked for to those who have done nothing to earn it. There will always be poor people(They are indeed a vital part of any nation's workforce and economy ) , but being poor is no excuse for committing any crime, let alone killing a protector of the peace.

__________________
Life in Bogota is a lot like a big box of Colombian chocolates. You never know when you'll get blown up by the FARC.

Atomic Dog

There's a difference between stuffing money into the hands of the poor and creating jobs for them. I'm not saying hand it out, I'm saying lend a hand. I don't think it's a fair assumption to say that all poor people must be doing nothing. Most poor people are victims of circuimstance. Most poor people are labor workers, blue collar people who bust their balls daily to get what little they have. Many of them also get shafted by insurance companies, banks, bill collectors, and in some cases even their own local police. This is a serious epidemic in our nation and one that shouldn't be so easily brushed aside. Sure there are those that exploit the system to live off welfare and foodstamps solely, but from my experience those are the exceptions to the rule. One of the biggest problems in many of the poorest rural neighborhoods is a lack of access to higher education. And in many cases even where there is access, there is a growing problem of young people turning to things like drug dealing to make a living. And to be honest, I've met pushers who bank more in a year than surgeons. This isn't a problem that fixes itself.

__________________

Silas Ender

Your life is, for the most part(Barring things like getting your legs crushed under a bus, or getting colon cancer, etc. ) what you make of it. In a nation such as ours, you have the ability to make yourself pretty much anything you want. So if no act of god renders you incapable, then it's all down to you, no excuses. As for creating jobs, it is easier said than done, though it is a common goal of many politicians. So, if you want to lend a hand, vote for the guy working to establish heavy (Insert industry product here ) tariffs, or who promises to fight against military base closures.




Getting shafted is hardly the sole province of the poor, and it is nothing new. If you can think of a viable solution, I would be genuinely interested to discuss it.



True enough, but as I said before, barring acts of god that debilitate you, your life is mostly what you make of it. If you want something badly enough, you will find a way to obtain it.


I know a good number of people who make a middle class living without a college education. It is hardly vital, though it is a fantastic asset.



Ahh, but once more we must turn to personal responsibility. Who's choice was it to sell drugs? Who's fault is it when a man robs a store? It is his own. I have known high school students that deal drugs who make 100K a year(Holy crap, eh? ) . But does this lessen the crime they have committed, or the perpetrator's responsibility for having done so? No. This is not a problem that fixes itself, true. But I believe the first step is to stop making excuses for those who have chosen to break the law, to deal drugs, to murder, and to recognize that the responsibility rests on their shoulders alone.

__________________
Life in Bogota is a lot like a big box of Colombian chocolates. You never know when you'll get blown up by the FARC.

CingularDuality

Extreme examples of welfare exploitation aren't really the problem. The problem is the cultural shift in our inner cities. More and more people think that living off welfare instead of working is the way to go.
I think our urban neighborhoods are more of a problem. They're certainly a bigger (more populous) problem. And the problem is that kids aren't even graduating from high school anymore. Dallas and Houston both have a greater than 50% drop out rate now. Higher education doesn't matter if we can't even keep them in high school.

__________________

Become a supporting member!

Buy a Tactical Duck!
Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

ednos

As if most high schools are worth attending... I know that I learned more from reading Wikipedia and a few books from the library than any of my friends in the public schools around me were taught.

Silas Ender

Though I have been almost entirely educated in DOD or international schools, I have spent long enough in the public education system to know that you are totally correct. Public schools in the United States are laughable. The most severe problem is the that students spend 90% of their time preparing for useless standardized tests. Another is the watering down of standards to allow everyone to pass, lest the schools lose their funding. No child left behind indeed. Now at least they have plenty of company.

__________________
Life in Bogota is a lot like a big box of Colombian chocolates. You never know when you'll get blown up by the FARC.

Switch

First, I am sorry to hear that good officers have died in the line of duty. One or five... its unfortunate.

The comments about the value of life, however, are dead wrong. In no previous time has the value of life been so high. Murder carries more weight now than it ever did, and violence is less palatable then ever. For those of you who say what about all that violence on TV and video games --- that is the PORTRAYAL of violence. True violence has been replaced by 'art' and those who commit violent crimes are held more accountable than ever.

As far as poverty and crime -- In my opinion poverty is the only true excuse for crime. Our economy relies on the exploitation of the poor so that they can server the rich. This isn't an opinion, its the way it is. If everyone was wealthy there would be no way to sustain the economy. The only poor abused worse than the our own poor population are the foreign workers who make a pittance compared to the American minimum wage. We need low wage workers to fill the millions of roles that the wealthy are unwilling to fill. This creates much resentment in that the system is geared to keep the poor poor and the rich rich.

What occurs is a social rift between the poor, the dwindling middle class, and the rich. When the occupants of poor 'ghettos' revolt against greater society, it happens in the form of crime, gangs, and negative civil disobedience (meaning they are not doing so for a cause). While it is possible for people from these poor regions to 'uplift' themselves and work at being middle/upper/wealthy it is far far harder for them as they begin with less material wealth and that hinders educational opportunity. They grow up in an environment radically opposed to the status quo, and they are stigmatized by law enforcement, which makes interactions unpleasant if not outright aggressive or abusive.

Police men do not form the upper crust of the wealthy elite either. Police and the ghetto poor are both on different side of a rich mans game, and they are both suffering for it. When the poor have opportunities to make money that pay better than petty drug smuggling or dealing, they'll be far more likely to fall in line. The aggression between the poor and the police will then decline in a commensurate fashion and the world will be sunshine and lollipops.

Until then, expect to lament more deaths of boys in blue. Unfortunate, but an unavoidable product of our society.

To those that server honestly and dutifully, much respect.

__________________
|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

El_Gringo_Grande

I think this is the story the radio show was referring to. The radio story also said early data might be showing another increase in violent crime.

You are right Hambergler that the trend over the last 15 or so years has been a decrease. Could the latest number simply be a regression toward the mean? Maybe.

__________________
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

leejo

I have no idea what this means but it sounds like utter twaddle. Please let me know what "the rich man's game" is?

By any democrat's standards, I am a rich man, and yet 5 years ago I was basically living off the money I got by selling the latest guitar amp. My "game" is I get up at 5:30 every Monday morning, fly to Dallas, work 12 hour days, sleep in a hotel room while my children learn to crawl, stand, walk, speak, swim, then fly home Thursday night. I've been doing this for three months and haven't gotten home within 2 hours of when I was supposed to once, thanks to the weather or some other issue. Thursday night the fuel pumps were shut down in Houston which meant I got to sit on the runway for 2 hours in Dallas wondering if I needed to get a hotel room for the night. That's my life, and I'm happy to do it to keep a roof over my family's heads' and help build a secure, happy future for us.

In October, I head to Tampa for three more months of the same. I expect this pattern for the foreseeable future. Furthermore, every "rich man" I know basically lives this life. Hard work, discipline, lack of sleep, and mission-focus.

How I'm keeping the ghetto poor or the police in jeopardy is beyond me. I barely have enough time, energy, or opportunity to have sex with my wife every once in a while, much less keep the poor man down. What game am I playing, pray tell?

To blame the "rich man" for the acts of some turds who decide than cops' lives is less important than their convenience is as stupid and immoral as anything I can think of. It's not the guy pulling the trigger's fault or responsibility?

I have dear friends in various forms of recovery, and through them I know convicted murderers (even cop killers!), former prostitutes, drug dealers, and various forms of former and current "ghetto poor". Without exception, when they "play the rich man's game" and stop using drugs or drinking their opportunities away, and begin living lives based on PERSONAL INTEGRITY AND RESPONSIBILITY their lives and wealth improve dramatically. If that's the "rich man's game" then I recommend we all start playing it.

This is not to say that all who live in poverty are irresponsible, but I do think it's the height of irresponsibility to blame police murders on anyone but the jerks who pulled the triggers, and no-one but they and the people who excuse their behavior by blaming others are deserving of our scorn. Screw your head on straight for goodness sakes!

Now that we have that out of the way, some have said that the police and border patrol will quit in a few years for various reasons. I don't believe that this will happen for the same reason that our soldiers are re-enlisting for service: their calling and motivation are beyond the understanding of those who doubt them, and worthy of more than the rest of us can give.

RIP guys, and thank you.

Switch

You completely misunderstood what I said. 'Rich Mans Game' begins when your personal wealth exceeds 300million. And even then you may not be a blip on the rich radar.

People who work are not playing the rich mans game.

__________________
|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

leejo

OK so what are these people doing that excuses or explains some meth tweaker's pulling a trigger on a cop? I still think what you said is complete bs. The rich man's game isn't forcing anyone to drop a cop, it's a PERSONAL decision these people make. Just like that woman in Dallas who decided the homeless guy stuck in her windshield was less important than her plans, these people don't want to face up to the fact that they may do some time for a crime, and so they kill the guy who comes to collect the bill. This isn't the "rich man" doing anything. It's rough customers killing people in their way.

Silas Ender

I agree with Leejo. Personal responsibility is one of the most important aspects of undercutting this culture of crime.




I'm sorry, but rich people have typically worked harder to become so than poor/middle class have to maintain their position. Do you comprehend the monumental amount of dedication and hard work it usually takes to build that kind of wealth? Bill Gates didn't sit on his backside and let the peons slave away for him.

__________________
Life in Bogota is a lot like a big box of Colombian chocolates. You never know when you'll get blown up by the FARC.

ednos

No. Wrong. MOST rich people are riding on what we call "old money". Many are hard workers who have the drive for success, but even at that, rarely do they start below upper-middle class.

moxmax

I read this thread and I can't help but wonder how many of you were ever poor and then became rich, or vice-versa.

I grew up in the city, on welfare, mom had minimum wage job after bad marriage, 3 siblings, and the only white family for over 10 blocks, during the 1980's this was a horrible time for any city. We had nothing, I only made it to 10th grade, becuase making money was more important than anything.

Yes i have been in trouble with the law, done stupid things, but I only did what I knew how, or what I had to do to get food on the table. I never thought of killing a cop, my father's brother was a Captain on our city police, and I was very fortunate for having that, but I abused it, and then my uncle said no more. I had to change. so I did!!

Unfortunately most of the friends I had growing up are either dead, or in jail, and I didn't want to end up like them. So I took my feeble education, moved to New York city with my brother where he made a success of himself and he showed me a new way of life, there I started to work every hour of the day at anything that i could get hired to do.

I have worked as cashier, roofer, Auto mechanic, cook, photographer, sales of all sorts of things, painter, and then i got into more experienced jobs- Network engineer, Software instructor, Mortgage sales, graphic design, film production, and now i presently own a Web Design company that is growing by leaps and bounds. This year I will be my first year that I made double what i made the previous year. but more importantly i am providing a better life for my wife and kids future so they don't have to go through what I went through, but they will still know where there roots come from.

The point that I am trying to make is (in my own opinion) too many people who don't know what is on the other side of the fence try to assume and pass judgement, with what they call facts or knowledge. I have been in a middle class lifestyle for "3 years" and I still don't understand why people act the way the do. And I am not going to pass judgement on them since I still don't understand most of this lifestyle yet.

I am very proud of where I am at today, and how far I have become. But I had to see what else was out there, most people in poverty never get that chance. So before anyone generalizes low-income people they should go live there themself.

I am not saying that it is right for killing, murder is the worst sin in my eyes, but to alot of people who live there don't know anything else.

Last thing, what I learned from the ghetto is in my signature.