"The Brain" is leaving...

TheFatKidDeath · 08-13-2007, 10:53 AM

Looks like one more rat is leaving the sinking ship. Karl Rove was to have been this brilliant strategist but in reality he's been a poor adviser to the President: Iraq, Katrina, and a host of other bad policies which are too many to list.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/wa...d-rove.html?hp

Kerostasis · 08-13-2007, 12:00 PM

This leaves me wondering, for all those people who are convinced that Bush is too stupid to be President without Rove telling him what to do, who are they going to blame now? I suppose they could just blame Cheney twice as much...it's still denial though.

xTYBALTx · 08-13-2007, 01:32 PM

I know I'm opening up the can of worms here, but wasn't Rove just the salesman behind the policies and people? I've always considered his position more of Bush telling him, "Hey Rove, we're invading Iraq. Help me put a nice face on it." rather than one of Rove sauntering in to the Oval Office and saying, "Listen up Bush, you're numbers are down so we're invading some piss poor country. I don't care which one, but ya gotta do it."

AMosely · 08-13-2007, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

This leaves me wondering, for all those people who are convinced that Bush is too stupid to be President without Rove telling him what to do, who are they going to blame now? I suppose they could just blame Cheney twice as much...it's still denial though.

What denial? Bush went lame duck months ago. Rove is needed elsewhere in the party now. Dick would quit if he could (I'm surprised he doesn't make a way), though Cheney's biography (from what I've read) very much supports the theory that he is in fact the President.

The few things that Bush came up with on his own (such as the Harriet Meirs nomination) became new events in the laffolympics.

I'm breathing easier knowing that this administration is finally packing up shop, of which Rove's departure is a true sign. They were a boot in the face to a lot of Americans - not all - but many.

Edit: Tybalt - Rove was incredibly influential. He did not play as heavy a role in foreign affairs, but domestically he very much defined administration policy. It is established fact that most policy matters were run by Rove's office - even Cheney would run things by Rove, which is saying a lot.

Kerostasis · 08-13-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

Rove is needed elsewhere in the party now.

Supposedly Rove is actually retiring from political advising, not just from this particular administration. I guess we won't know that for sure till we see who's on the staff for the next Republican nominee, though.

DLBlue · 08-13-2007, 04:44 PM

They will just find someone else to blame...

I really dont care who's to blame to be honest. Dwelling on the past sucks and I am getting sick and tired of hearing about what happened 6 years ago. I made dumb mistakes 4 years ago and I know that now, but they seemed like great ideas at the time (I can think of a few girlfriends for starters). I would rather not be reminded about them, and just move on and learn from them. Same thing goes for this administration. Seriously, if they made mistakes, so what? They're human. If they made the best effort they could, so what?

JUST LEARN FROM IT AND MOVE ON

</rant>

I am just sick of everyone pointing fingers, seems like all we do in this country anymore, instead of taking responsibility and moving with that notion. That and feel entitled to everything and anything.

EDIT: For clarification, I am sick of anything the Dems doing not 'What the Reps would do' and they get vocal about it, and vice versa. If it passes, its what the USA does. Start backing your country as a whole instead of your damn half. I am starting to feel like this isnt the USA but this is either Rep or Dem, depending on the year, and the minority is a social outcast.

mentholated · 08-13-2007, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLBlue

They will just find someone else to blame...

I really dont care who's to blame to be honest. Dwelling on the past sucks and I am getting sick and tired of hearing about what happened 6 years ago. I made dumb mistakes 4 years ago and I know that now, but they seemed like great ideas at the time (I can think of a few girlfriends for starters). I would rather not be reminded about them, and just move on and learn from them. Same thing goes for this administration. Seriously, if they made mistakes, so what? They're human. If they made the best effort they could, so what?

JUST LEARN FROM IT AND MOVE ON

</rant>

I am just sick of everyone pointing fingers, seems like all we do in this country anymore, instead of taking responsibility and moving with that notion. That and feel entitled to everything and anything.

EDIT: For clarification, I am sick of anything the Dems doing not 'What the Reps would do' and they get vocal about it, and vice versa. If it passes, its what the USA does. Start backing your country as a whole instead of your damn half. I am starting to feel like this isnt the USA but this is either Rep or Dem, depending on the year, and the minority is a social outcast.

Well, they continue to make "mistakes"... thats why people won't "move on". Backing up your country is one thing, backing up a corrupt government is entirely another.

And for those who think they're beginning to pack up shop, we've still got till 09 to see if they're really going to give up the whitehouse. Don't forget about the whole continuity of government exec order.

DLBlue · 08-13-2007, 04:52 PM

Its just a convulated mess

I am all for revolution. Or at least the parties working together. I mean I understand competition and everything, but they are out for the same good, just different means. The current admin acts like the Dems are part of the global terrorist organization. I seriously just want them to open the floodgates to any info they want. If the Dems do some ****ty move with it (like going to the media and saying, hey we're attacking here tomorrow') then its THEIR fault.

**CingularDuality** · 08-15-2007, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

It is established fact that most policy matters were run by Rove's office - even Cheney would run things by Rove, which is saying a lot.

Established by who? And what's wrong with that? Wouldn't you expect stuff to be run past an "adviser"? Hard to get advice if the adviser is ignorant of the situation.

I've just never understood why anyone cares about where the advice is coming from. The President is the one that ultimately makes the decision. And at least the advice isn't from an astrologer...

xTYBALTx · 08-15-2007, 03:45 AM

Rasputin! Rasputin!

Whatever.

Beatnik · 08-15-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Established by who? And what's wrong with that? Wouldn't you expect stuff to be run past an "adviser"? Hard to get advice if the adviser is ignorant of the situation.

I've just never understood why anyone cares about where the advice is coming from. The President is the one that ultimately makes the decision. And at least the advice isn't from an astrologer...

Established by his position as Deputy White House Chief of Staff for Strategic Planning.

I won't speak for other people, but the reason I personally loathed Karl Rove and his role in this administration is the unprecedented politicization of just about every aspect of government, from scientific data to the attorney general to the 'turrists' to the U.S. Attorneys, etc. He's a chickenhawk and a shameless political operative that makes James Carville look like a fourteen year old virgin.

Good riddance.

**CingularDuality** · 08-15-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik

Established by his position as Deputy White House Chief of Staff for Strategic Planning.

I won't speak for other people, but the reason I personally loathed Karl Rove and his role in this administration is the unprecedented politicization of just about every aspect of government, from scientific data to the attorney general to the 'turrists' to the U.S. Attorneys, etc. He's a chickenhawk and a shameless political operative that makes James Carville look like a fourteen year old virgin.

Good riddance.

That's cool. I just get sick of the "Rove is the real President" line of crap.

Beatnik · 08-15-2007, 12:36 PM

I hear that. Cheney's the real president, anyway.

**CingularDuality** · 08-15-2007, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik

I hear that. Cheney's the real president, anyway.

Exactly!

AMosely · 08-15-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Established by who? And what's wrong with that? Wouldn't you expect stuff to be run past an "adviser"? Hard to get advice if the adviser is ignorant of the situation.

I've just never understood why anyone cares about where the advice is coming from. The President is the one that ultimately makes the decision. And at least the advice isn't from an astrologer...

Established by press reports, interviews, transcripts, senate hearings and testimony. There's nothing wrong with running things through an advisor. There's something wrong with running everything through Rove, who diabolically puts the interests (or perceived interests) of the republican party ahead of anything and anyone - including the very people who cast their votes for them.

08-13-2007, 10:53 AM	#1 (permalink)
TheFatKidDeath Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Monica, CA Age: 39 Posts: 2,799	"The Brain" is leaving... Looks like one more rat is leaving the sinking ship. Karl Rove was to have been this brilliant strategist but in reality he's been a poor adviser to the President: Iraq, Katrina, and a host of other bad policies which are too many to list. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/13/wa...d-rove.html?hp __________________ \|TG-9th\| TheFatKidDeath "Born to Party, Forced to Work." http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55640 - Check me out on The Onion http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...ssfully_avoids - I'm on the local news!

08-13-2007, 01:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: "The Brain" is leaving... I know I'm opening up the can of worms here, but wasn't Rove just the salesman behind the policies and people? I've always considered his position more of Bush telling him, "Hey Rove, we're invading Iraq. Help me put a nice face on it." rather than one of Rove sauntering in to the Oval Office and saying, "Listen up Bush, you're numbers are down so we're invading some piss poor country. I don't care which one, but ya gotta do it." __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

08-13-2007, 04:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
DLBlue Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 234	Re: "The Brain" is leaving... They will just find someone else to blame... I really dont care who's to blame to be honest. Dwelling on the past sucks and I am getting sick and tired of hearing about what happened 6 years ago. I made dumb mistakes 4 years ago and I know that now, but they seemed like great ideas at the time (I can think of a few girlfriends for starters). I would rather not be reminded about them, and just move on and learn from them. Same thing goes for this administration. Seriously, if they made mistakes, so what? They're human. If they made the best effort they could, so what? JUST LEARN FROM IT AND MOVE ON </rant> I am just sick of everyone pointing fingers, seems like all we do in this country anymore, instead of taking responsibility and moving with that notion. That and feel entitled to everything and anything. EDIT: For clarification, I am sick of anything the Dems doing not 'What the Reps would do' and they get vocal about it, and vice versa. If it passes, its what the USA does. Start backing your country as a whole instead of your damn half. I am starting to feel like this isnt the USA but this is either Rep or Dem, depending on the year, and the minority is a social outcast. __________________ ---Bellicosity---

08-13-2007, 04:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
DLBlue Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 234	Re: "The Brain" is leaving... Its just a convulated mess I am all for revolution. Or at least the parties working together. I mean I understand competition and everything, but they are out for the same good, just different means. The current admin acts like the Dems are part of the global terrorist organization. I seriously just want them to open the floodgates to any info they want. If the Dems do some ****ty move with it (like going to the media and saying, hey we're attacking here tomorrow') then its THEIR fault. __________________ ---Bellicosity---

08-15-2007, 03:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: "The Brain" is leaving... Rasputin! Rasputin! Whatever. __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

08-15-2007, 12:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
Beatnik Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Age: 33 Posts: 4,337	Re: "The Brain" is leaving... I hear that. Cheney's the real president, anyway. __________________ -F- Beatnik

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