Wolfie

The US has lost the USS Thresher and the USS Scorpion. Thresher was lost during exercises to determine her seaworthyness while the cause for the Scorpion to be lost was never determined.

http://www.subnet.com/fleet/ssn593.htm

http://www.txoilgas.com/589.html

There have been 5 nuclear submarines sunk, 3 of Russia's and 2 of the United States

Wolfie

The Russian military hasn't had an actual major conflict since the end of WWII. So I think it may be a little, what is the word I want to say...pretentious?, to say that Russia's military was incabable of sustaining in a real conflict.

The only types of conflicts that the US and Russia both participated was wars against guerrilla fighters (Russia with Afghanistan and US with Vietnam) and neither side did well against their oponents if I recall correctly.

The only real conflicts that the US has had since WWII would be Korea (which went both ways) and Desert Storm. Had it been the Russians that were the main military strength in Desert Storm, the outcome would probably have been the same if you examine their opposition.

=DdogG=

but no evidence of the nuclear core meltdown. the soviets have had recorded events of meldown or near meltdown. 3 mi island has been the only recorded screwup in american history and it was not military. or am I wrong?

edit.

a link to every nuclear incident in US history

http://www.lutins.org/nukes.html

my appologies. there seems to be a whole lot of them.


but no ship since 1978 has seen an accident involving nuclear material. most of the other incidents were non military. there are some pretty good screwups in there though.


here's a good list of the world....
http://archive.greenpeace.org/comms/...nob/rep02.html

an a list of soviet screwups....
(just subs)... http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/europe...ne.history.ap/

so, without having the freedom of speech that america enjoys, it is hard to find all of the issues thatr happened in soviet russia... I would consder them much higher since this is the ones that the world found out about.

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Turbinator

highly doubt it, if the west knows about the 3 subs in the atlantic, then thats all there is. But then again cover up is the best skill of KGB, and cia alike

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Turbinator

right these are the ones i ment, wasnt sure about US 1or2.

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Turbinator

never have I said that it was. Overspent on military? then you would agree that US did and doing so too?

It vent bust, not for spending on military but the humangous change in financial structure, from EVERYTHING owned by the GORvement, to privatization, Capitalism.
Imagine US Goverment does the development for all of its military technology, no need to settle the bill with corporations. $270 billion bux saved instead of spent.
Imagine ~$15 billion dollars that NASA spends on contractors and such, is taken care of by the goverment instead, meaning companies that NASA is outsourcing too is owned by the goverment therefore there is no need for capital expense like there is now. Now by that I do not mean that there is no cost associated with creating shuttles at all, or other equipment, simply because its owned and operated by the goverment, but costs are second to none compared to having private companies making and bulding components for you.

Up to this day even CIA does not know how much Soviets spent on their military, they could be guessing, simply by knowing wat US military was spending during those years, give or take a billion.


only one thing i can tell you here, people are driven by greed, all the west had to do is appeal to their weakness, their (leaders of eastern countries), weakness= power and money. All you need to do is convice each leader, tell them you will be the president of the country, leader of "free" world.

Most people easpecially those on top positions, those that do not lead but 2nd in rank rather, always want an opportunity to lead=personal gain, individualism, so ofcourse for them it sounds beautifull. THose that suffer are peopl that were born and raised on ideals of socialism.

One more thing id like to note, all that i said above will not make sence to you, and its only for one reason, u never lived in a socialistic country, during the years of socialism/communism.

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Turbinator

Gentlemen,

Lets not escalate this any further. All started from me correcting fenix about a comment on tanks.

Now its getting political, and that we all know, that does not get anywhere, like religion, people dont talk about it, cause most cant agree on it.

IF democrats and republicans cant agree on things, how can a socialist agree with a capitalist

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=DdogG=

actually, I enjoy seeing your perspective on these topics. I would never think along the same lines, and hearing a fresh perspective is thought provoking to say the least.

I dont think anyone is getting out of hand, and if everyone is like me, they are eager to hear about life in a socialist regime. I dont think anyone else here has been subject to this environment.

__________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison

If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

Turbinator

dudeman appears to be aggetated abit it seems.


But thanks on that comment . On that note, welcome to continue . That is if there is anything else to say that i did not cover in the response for dudeman.

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Wolfie

Dudeman always seems to have his panties in a bunch about something, just ignore him for the most part.

Turbinator

hehe alright.

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DudeMan

so all you have to do turbinator is change every human being from one of their most ingrained (lets face it part of our nature) greed to be a better world.

rigggght, and this experiment has worked where.

socialism whilst having good intentions is a farce, and communism a pipe dream.

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

DudeMan

why dont you shut up wolfie,

no need for that ****, dont tell people to ignore me,

ffs what gives you the .. **** this man

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The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

CingularDuality

I believe Wolfie has just made his point...

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DudeMan

like i care, he wants to go around bad m,outhing people, when ionfact if memory serves him i helped him out in that department.

ofcourse next time ill shut the **** up and let people do as they please.

__________________


The Queen
"Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life,"
Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community

TheFeniX
"Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"