The Most Extra New Super Global Warming Thread

[leejo]

What Global Warming Looks Like

Originally Posted by insipid article that ABC ran for some reason

Mazria isn't a climatologist. He's not even a scientist.

Awesome. Go on...

Mazria's group has issued the "2030 Challenge," calling for greatly improved efficiency standards in new and renovated buildings in the coming decades. The goal is to make buildings "carbon neutral" by 2030.

OK. But who gives a rat's ass? You're not a scientist Mr. Mazria.

The plan has been adopted by the U.S. Conference of Mayors and the American Institute of Architects, among others. If the goal can be reached, Mazria said, demand for coal should drop dramatically.

Oh sweet Jesus...

Originally Posted by more moonbattery

The images of cities under a layer of water in the Architecture 2030 report are eye-opening. Mazria said they took a year to compile, using government elevation data combined with Google Earth maps.

Wow. A year? That's like, what, 6 scientist weeks?

The results show wide swaths of Miami and Hollywood, Fla., under water after just 3 feet of sea level rise. With about 5 feet of sea level rise, Galveston, Texas, would lose its airport and much of the area around it. And if San Francisco sees a 8-foot sea level rise, the waters of McCovey Cove would be lapping across the infield at AT&T Park.

But....but...What if Godzilla shows up!? What then??? According to NOAA, the sea levels are rising astonishingly quickly - http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/slrmap.html - in a mere 300 years, if the trend continues, swaths of Miami and Hollywood, Fla (have you been to Hollywood Fla? Good riddance) would be under water. In 500 years, Galvaston could be underwater and the airport, (unless they move it in time!) could be under water! (Nevermind that Galvaston WAS under water in 1900)

And children, in 800 years, San Fran Freaking Cisco...I know...the baseball field....THE BASEBALL FIELD could be under water.

Of course, NOAA is full of scientists who work for the government and so their work probably understates the urgency of the problem. And of course Mr. Mazria is an independent not-for-profit non-scientist whose ideas and projections fit nicely into the little global warming box we're told is fact, so by all means.

But wait!

Originally Posted by The Infallible Mr. Hansen, Scientist

"We do not have good models that include all of the relevant physics for the ice sheets," said James Hansen, a top climate scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York. But Hansen said that if humans continue to heat the atmosphere in a business-as-usual fashion — and the Greenland or Antarctic ice sheets start to collapse — all bets are off.

"Once a collapse starts, things can happen very rapidly," Hansen said. "I would expect that it's almost certain that before the end of the century we would have sea level rise measured in meters. At least one or 2 or 3 meters [ 6 to 9 feet] this century if we follow business as usual."

The man has no shame.

[Acreo Aeneas]

Global warming is starting to sound like business proporganda intended to attract large swarms of potential customers for products they may or may not use within their lifetimes...

I still think it's a valid issue, just not one we could properly address in our lifetimes.

[leejo]

Originally Posted by Acreo Aeneas

Global warming is starting to sound like business proporganda intended to attract large swarms of potential customers

Ding ding ding ding! There's a word for these "potential customers".

[xTYBALTx]

Tha-tha-tha that which don't kill me, can on-ly make-me strong-er.

Anyone else feel like GW people just want Akira to destroy Neo-Tokyo?

[leejo]

I want Akira to destroy Kanye. What does that mean?

[DudeMan]

now this is the sort of global warming discussion i could get into, the one where everyone actually agrees that global warming is just another Taxing tool and buisness proposition...

now im off to drive my car and piss off a few hippies.

[Zephyr]

I still have yet to meet a hippie who has DONE something about climate change...

And I go to Bard College...that's a bad sign.

-Zephyr

[leejo]

Funny how many smoke, isn't it?

[VegaBond]

Smoking is not dangerous to your health!! circa 1960s

[USN_Squid]

California suit on car greenhouse gases dismissed

On one hand, I'm glad to see an absurd law suit thrown out of court. On the other hand it would have been interesting to see the discovery and expert testimony go on for years. I'm sure it'll happen eventually.

[AMosely]

Having fathered two of these threads already, I didn't start a new GW/Climate Change thread for fear that it would once again fail to be a debate and instead become yet another forum for mockery. It seems that that's where this thread is heading as well, which speaks to the true nature of these forums - entertainment.

While I have previously stated that the human factor in climate change may be impossible to completely separate from natural climatological factors and therefore 'prove', I hope that most of you realize that it is socially and scientifically ignorant to think that climate change is a topic that can be rationally dismissed or ignored.

If it brings you pleasure to shoot holes in the media and political hype surrounding this issue, that is your choice. The same goes for taking stabs at the scientific community itself. I would much rather spend time discussing the facts as they are presented and observations of the changing world that we all inhabit. To that end and for what it is worth, I'll make an attempt at offering what I see as relevant new material.

Carried over from the last thread, a United States GAO report on preparation for climate change effects on federally managed lands and resources
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d07863.pdf

Lawrence Livermore National Labratory recently produced findings on human-induced changes in atmospheric moisture (or water vapor), soon to be published in the online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
http://www.llnl.gov/PAO/news/news_re...-07-09-01.html

[leejo]

Originally Posted by AMosely

It seems that that's where this thread is heading as well, which speaks to the true nature of these forums - entertainment.

I'm sorry. What exactly did you think the sandbox forum at a gaming site was for? I love you guys, but we aren't going to father any great breakthroughs through our collective postings.

I hope that most of you realize that it is socially and scientifically ignorant to think that climate change is a topic that can be rationally dismissed or ignored.

And I trust that you realize how socially and scientifically arrogant it is for you to say this.

[AMosely]

Originally Posted by leejo

I'm sorry. What exactly did you think the sandbox forum at a gaming site was for? I love you guys, but we aren't going to father any great breakthroughs through our collective postings.

I think intelligent debate is enlightening at any level, and can happen anywhere. It's happened here.

Originally Posted by leejo

And I trust that you realize how socially and scientifically arrogant it is for you to say this.

Then explain why climate change (not media/political hype, but the actual study, observation and forecasting of it) can be rationally dismissed or ignored. I am making the claim that it is irrational (and given the amount of published study, ignorant) to claim that it does not exist (ignore) or to claim that it has no impact on the planet and the human race (dismiss). I also believe that it is equally irrational to claim that it is armageddon, or that it is factually human-caused. In between these extremes lies the rational reality.

[leejo]

I would never, nor have I ever, claimed that climate change is not occurring. If the climate ever achieves a steady state, I will be very interested and very afraid.

"Climate Change", on the other hand, is code for "global warming" which is code for "man-made global warming". How can any of these things be rationally dismissed? By reviewing the evidence. We have had many pages of rational discussion about this evidence or that evidence, and intelligent people disagree on how to interpret the evidence.

One common theme that I see in people who are most concerned with "climate change" is their assumption that people who disagree with them are ignorant or biased. That's arrogant. Taking that position before the entire story is known is foolish.

[Rincewind]

I know one thing: the climate in this thread is changing at a much faster rate than has ever previously been recorded in sandbox history. Though, whether or not humans are contributing to this rapid change in climate is hotly debated. In my head.