Bloodrain

I am occassionally guilty of this manuever. I did it on lunchbreak thursday I believe. I came in one round and with that move took out 6 of 8 CTs then bought guns for team and left. Just a booster. So slap my hands. Was only having fun.
Now as to the tactical benefit. Hmmm...many dead. That's good but is it directly related to guarding the hosties. No.
Is it related to guarding by showing where CTs are on radar? Small percent.
I believe the benefit is offset by the loss if killed gathering intel unless ready with back up, i.e. multi nade if radar showed many CTs as in a rush formation.

I have another point about Ts though. The guarding thing. If realism is the idea, wouldn't desperate terrorist do whatever nescessary to get what they want. Pay off for hosties (win round).
They would use a suicide bomber. Which is most likely the apt manuever except with intel feedback.

SloppyJoe

I don't mind so much the contest over the apartments. Again, as long as defense:
1) Allocates appropriate peeps to other areas/hostages
2) Communicates intel
3) Considers positions that can be fallen back from to go help their team if they are being over run from another position.
4) Fall back when the tide turns instead of dying in a blaze of glory.

What would be smackable IMO are players without mics pushing into this area, or with mics and don't use them, RAMBO players that don't consider 'fall back' an option in their play book, and players that will /stay/ in apartments even though their team is croaking at the hostages (where fort art though banhammer?).

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ouija

Sloppy nailed it.

If you team is falling, and CTs are at the hostage shack, and you are still in the apartments...best understand administrative action will seek you out.

Another point, per SOPs...if you are falling back to the hostages because your objective is about to be compromised, this does not mean speeding through the apartments back up through the market. You are to take the quickest route back to your objective.

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PM me with any questions or concerns.
Professional Counterstrike (PCS) FAQ | PCS Player Standards

Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.

ednos

The problem I see is that people think, "PCS players have done it, so I can do it to." They think in terms of boundaries. Then, when Avs is the last CT left, they spot him in the apartments and hunt him down. Luckily he killed all three of them.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Ben

And THATS why we dont kill hunt

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A battle is dynamic, i.e constantly changing and evolving. Follow the strategy in place but never be afraid to improvise if the situation calls for it.
All I ask for is communication

Vulcan

quickest and safest route.

If they are in the stairs and not long hall, i'd go the back way through long hall to get back.

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Ghengiszu

i like the new italy that has been made i have no problem and no dispute, it seems like a fair map to me

kean

well we all know this map and there seems to be come controversy over T's pushing into bottom and top apartments. Personally Ive been told, you can and you can't and Ive also been slayed for going upstairs. But regardless the question remains, is top apartments a legit spot? With enough communication is in undoubtedly a very key point that can easily secure a Terrorist victory, because it from there you can see, mid, tree room, entrance to cellar, and entrance to long hall. So, is it a legit spot, or is it too far to cover the objectives?

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Dr.FAsTy

In my opinion its to far. You may be able to cover all those poistions but you can easily run past long hall and rescue hostages. You can easily smoke the cellar entrance and get hostages rescue. I would say maybe if you have enough communication to go there it's your choice but I dont really think its a good move. You can easily stay at mid, celler, long, dark, sewers and the house with out touching apartments and still win.

--Fasty.

Vulcan

merged your thread with the already created italy taktic thread.

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kean

well that argument only works if your the last one left and no one is using comms. Thats the same as saying I could go in cellar and they could go long hall and get hosties, therefore according to your logic I shouldn't go to cellar either. And yes you could not go to apartments and still win, but by doing so you can scout for intel, secure what would be a huge advantage to ct's and greatly increase the odds of winning; all while being able to cover cellar, mid and longhall!

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Vulcan

A single person there can get taken from many angles. If you try to cover them you sacrifice guys from the objective. Really the only reason to be there as far as i can see it is to disrupt then fall back quickly.

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kean

Well if used sparingly it will surprise the ct's and you can take over all of apartments with a single person not needing any cover or support. From there he can call out locations and kill people from basically anywhere on the map. I do it on occasion and I'm usually successful.

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sparhawkxx

Gaining full control and then pushing upstairs to take middle should be with 2 people just like a flank from long hall. How far is too far? If you take control of the apartments and go to watch middle has your whole team been taken out?

Have you lost sight of your objective? A scare tactic to engage in the apartments and fall back seems to be a well played one. Anymore and I think your getting too far off your objective.

I think in a captains match or Lockdown with well organized comms you can use 2 people to take apartments and watch middle from second floor.

Again when you risk a push like that and die in the apartments your team comms are this " Where did he die? Oh in the apartments." When the teams are full that kind of information is useless. As the layout gains distance it allows the CT to reorganize and change strats while your sweating it out. You have not helped your team in this case.

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FUN FUN

Skylark

I agree with many of the things mentioned before.

The area around the tree room can be a key strategic position. Therefore, attempting to guard that location by way of the apartment choke point is an attractive idea, but it has its problems.

If alone, you pretty much can guard either the top or bottom floor. Minimizes your effectiveness. Hard to retreat without getting shot. That is a relatively long run with multiple areas (door, window, balcony, behind you at tree room) from which to be shot.

The apartments should only be infiltrated under certain conditions
a) large team of Ts. Sending 1 (or more) people if that leaves only 2 or 3 to guard the hostages is fool hardy and silly.
b) that move is part of the overall plan. I'd argue going INTO the apartments is usually a death sentence for the T. sure, you might take 1, 2 or 3 (DARN YOU TEXAS OIL!!!!) but you will probably die. So is that a sound strategy...? the suicide to lower the opponets? Granted, if **I** went in there, I'd die without killing anyone. (perhaps that is another condition - there is actually a chance you achieve something?)
c) That if no contact is made, and the CTs are hitting other areas, you pull back. Staying way out while the hostages are rescued is foolhardy. (just because I did it once is no excuse for you following my poor judgement.)
d) If the choosen leader of your team tells you to go. (even if he does it just to get you killed off)


I hope this makes some sort of sense as I started the email, then went shopping with my wife for 2.5 hours and then came home and finished it.

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