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Discussion: Counter-Strike - Map Discussion / Server Maps Review - CS_Covert - Originally Posted by SloppyJoe
I thought from your original post the issue was hostage extraction
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05-27-2007, 06:05 AM #16
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Re: cs_covert
Isnt that what I just said, but with more defintion?
Originally Posted by SloppyJoe
My quote: Ive played this map both as a T and a CT. The map really only has 2 dynamics. Whoever controls the aquarium, and whoever controls the vents. Both of which are easily locked down by a good T team. In turn, once this is done, it turns into a fragmonkey map for the first 2 minutes while the CTs do what they have to do to get in...
Perhaps I should have clarified, the Ts are able to get there before the CTs everytime. And are able to lock those points down.
Actually Sloppy, so if you read my second post, it simply backs up what I said in the first one. I didnt contradict myself or change my mind in anyway.
The map is a deathmatch map.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig.If it isn't PCS, whats the point?
PM me with any questions or concerns.
Professional Counterstrike (PCS) FAQ | PCS Player Standards
Aggressive Defense (an oxymoron): A naturally occurring situational event where a defender is caught in a role reversal anomaly. Usually associated with lack of practice, discipline or map awareness in a team based conflict.
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05-28-2007, 12:01 PM #17
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Re: cs_covert
I think what sloppy was saying is every map is a deathmatch if everyone plays to their objective because we should all be killing each other at the objectives.
There's no difference except that this map has less areas of approach as I stated.
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05-29-2007, 03:07 PM #18
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Re: cs_covert
Well not necessary right at the objectives. If the map has bottlenecks/defensible positions leading to the objectives, it would be tactically wise to allocate at least some personnel to those positions. If the offense takes looks to be breaking through, those people should be falling back.
Anyways, this type of scenario usually leads to typical high activity spots; at the bottlenecks, and/or at the objectives. To me, that doesn't seem too be uncommon for many maps, depends how open they are. CS_Parkhouse is very open and the hot zones aren't as condensed, whereas maps like CS_Office, the hot zones are very condensed.
They are just different beasts that require different tactics given the environmental variables..
"The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves."
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05-31-2007, 11:33 PM #19
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Re: cs_covert
I have to side with Sloppy on this matter, I understand that the objective is to protect the hostages but that means killing all of the CT's. I rarely see, even on this server, when all the hosties have been captured. Ad again that only happens when there are few Ts and they have no idea whats going on.,
Former Cutthroat, established Merc.
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06-01-2007, 01:16 PM #20
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Re: cs_covert
The most common hostage map for T slaying is cs_bhdconvoy. People who are new to the map don't realize that the CTs can get around behind them, rescue one set of hostages, and sneak up on the next set. It's pretty amusing, and it only happens to you once.
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Feel free to quote me. ~ Skylark
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06-07-2007, 11:40 PM #21
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Re: cs_covert
very prone to tactics you use, t's have it sorta easy
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07-21-2007, 09:15 PM #22
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CS_Covert
Use this thread to share your thoughts on CS_Covert.
Personally, I feel this map offers little to no tactical options for the terrorist side. The aquarium room is the primary bottleneck and nearly impossible to penetrate. The two vent areas offer such a defensive advantage to the CTs that one can hold the entire T team off.
In my experience, the T team does not have fun while playing. The only "plans" are timing and grenade tossing while attempting to assault the aquarium room.
I would go as far as to request the removal of this map from rotation.
-Aaron
EDIT: I know this is supposed to be in the Map forum. Please move it for me, sorry, I don't know what happened.
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07-21-2007, 09:41 PM #23
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Re: CS_Covert
*merged into already existing thread Schwa
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07-22-2007, 01:45 AM #24
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Re: CS_Covert
Thanks Gogeta, I searched for the thread but it appears I hit general by mistake. Sorry for the confusion.
I still maintain that this map isn't fun for the CT side. There is one main bottleneck that is nearly impossible to assault if the T side defends it heavily. The ability to win as a CT is only if the Ts have mercy, and hang back away from the aquarium room.
-Aaron
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07-22-2007, 04:52 PM #25
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Re: CS_Covert
The vents are the key to the CT's winning and really the main part of the map. I've said it before, I've actually rescued all of the hostages on this map.
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07-23-2007, 01:56 PM #26
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Re: CS_Covert
I'll concede that your ability to rescue all the hostages boggles my mind.
Given the linear nature of the map, I can only hypothesize that the alive terrorists were doing all of the following:
a) not communicating
b) hiding in the vents
c) not protecting the hostages
In my opinion, CT victory on this map depends on the terrorists not playing tactically.
Personally, I enjoy the maps where each team can make a plan, implement it, and victory is decided on those variables. Wins and Losses are not the measurement by which to gauge fun. I'm certain that all Tactical Gamers can remember fun nights where they have made awesome plans, implemented them successfully, and lost horribly.
The small amount of bottlenecks in cs_Covert limit the amount of planning options to the point where it is no longer fun, based on my own criteria.
-Aaron
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07-23-2007, 02:42 PM #27
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Re: CS_Covert
I'd like to politely disagree with you. It's very possible, with appropriate planning and good shooting, to confuse or wear down the Terrorists on this map. It takes more effort on the Counter-Terrorist side, which may be to your dismay. Personally, I love trying to plan my way around an imbalance, as long as the imbalance is entirely tactical and one team isn't completely outgunning the other. Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?
I think this is really possible on most maps if you put enough effort into it. The problem for me is that it would take planning and study beforehand to come up with any effective strategies, and it would help if I was playing with people I gamed plenty with so that I knew their personal quirks and things. The real epitome of beauty in complex planning and execution just doesn't happen regularly because of the natural restrictions: only forty-five seconds to plan, not ten minutes, and a notable lack of a map I can draw on to show my teammates what's going down. This is why I'm looking forwards to the PCS vs. Regulars match so much--I'm playing with a static set of characters (people aren't coming and going over the course of the game), and I have the opportunity to send them images and detailed instructions beforehand. Captains' matches are the in-between level, where planning is still on-the-fly but you generally have the same people for the whole map. Originally Posted by What Is Schwa?
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07-23-2007, 04:00 PM #28
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Re: CS_Covert
Ednos> you are completely correct.
I suffer a desire for balance. Inside me a loud voice screams when I recognize inequality. For me, it is an obsession that touches every aspect in my life. Where some people see beauty in flowing shapes and a menagerie of color I see beauty in interlocking patterns and consistent tempo.
I have enjoyed cs_Convoy. I have made may plans with my team and failed miserably and still had fun. Unfortunately, my inner mechanizations amplify the fairness voice. For me I can only internalize consistent CT losses on cs_Convoy as a failure on fairness.
I appreciate your polite dissent. I always try to conduct my own behavior in the same fashion, but sometimes find that just by being vocal I step on many toes. I understand why this is: my desire for balance is one face of my decaying mind, and dealing with someone like that is difficult.
I also appreciate the patience this community has shown. I will be the first to admit that balance as a goal is akin to Sisyphus' curse. However, balance is always the beginning of my thinking, and will always continue to be so.
May the toes of TG be stampeded upon.
-Aaron
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07-23-2007, 04:29 PM #29
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Re: CS_Covert
I'm pretty sure that on the occasion this happened, the 2 remaining T's were the guys outward and they didn't have time to get back, we made real short work of getting the hostages.
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07-23-2007, 05:39 PM #30
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Re: CS_Covert
AH!! Covert and Italy. Whats tha diferance?
Same play as covert. So if you rescue hostages the T's arnt using comms or off from objective right? Remeber I love every map.
FUN FUN
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