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Discussion: Team Fortress 2 / Team Fortress 2 - General Discussion - Requesting FF = ON tryout - After I had my fun with this Beta for some weeks on FF = OFF
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10-03-2007, 02:03 PM #1
Requesting FF = ON tryout
After I had my fun with this Beta for some weeks on FF = OFF the Games somehow seem to get dull and mindless.
Everyone shooting at everyone. Demos and Soldiers fire into melee fights without having to worry about anything. The Fort map is blocked by 3-4 Sentry Turrents every time leading to more stalemates than anything else.
So sure.. find a new tactic against turrents... Spy! But its not like a Spy has a big chance because everyone fires at everyone like there is no tomorrow. It gets even harder on TG since most people know each other and you know their kit preferences and voices and playstyles etc.
So.. well... we do have 2 servers and I would suggest to make a FF = ON tryout on one of them. Sure there be accidental teamkills and things but if it can work it is on TG.
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10-03-2007, 02:05 PM #2
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
I dont know if ff=on would help too too much - but I would personally like to try.
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10-03-2007, 02:09 PM #3
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
Sounds like a good idea. Too bad Valve hard-coded FF out of TF2.
Sorry guys, I was hoping to give FF another shot when things got more stable. Not going to happen now.
This pretty much sums up my position. If you don't want FF, fine. To each his own. But I'd like the OPTION if I feel like it. I don't like devs denying me the option to run my server the way they see fit.
I feel no different about this as I if Windows XP denied me using Real Player. Sure, Real Player is pretty much garbage, but I'd like the option to run it if I decide to.
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10-03-2007, 04:06 PM #4
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
I'm glad to see they hardcoded it. Like they previously it was never supposed to be release as an option. With this type of game it really doesn't need to be on.
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10-03-2007, 04:16 PM #5
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
Amen to that. Spies would be so overpowered, and other classes practically useless since they'd never be able to actually do damage without killing their teammates. Hell, one of the purposes for the Pyro class is for checking for spies because the flames burn off their disguise.
Originally Posted by machowner
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10-03-2007, 04:22 PM #6
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
My problem with this line of reason is: how would you feel if they hard-coded class limits into TF2? 1 spy per team? 2 heavies? What if voice was hard-coded out (at least TS gives us a work-around)? Custom maps that valve doesn't like? Where does the buck stop with this? Who is anyone (even the dev team) to say "this is how this game is meant to be played?"
Ask 5 different people how CSS, TF2, BF2, or any other online game "should be played" and you'll likely get 6 different answers. What benefit is there to curtailing the communities choice on how they run their servers?
How many new players over the course of a week come into any TG server and say "This is a stupid way to play this game."? I don't know about some titles, but I heard that a lot in PCS, Dystopia, and (to a lesser extent) Natural Selection. But it's our choice to run the server X way, and that's a good thing because it creates a diverse community that players of all philosophies can find a home in.
If TG decides FF is not a valid option for TF2, then that's fine. But if other communities or servers decide they want it enabled, they're denied that ability. I'm not big on anyone forcing me to play the game the way they want to. If I don't agree with a variable setting on a server, I can find another one to play on.
Does Microsoft want you using OpenOffice? Probably not, but if they started hardcoding out the ability to use it, I'm sure we'd see a lot more fuss. Why are dev teams given a pass on these types of decisions?
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10-03-2007, 04:26 PM #7
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
Don't like it, don't buy it? Originally Posted by TheFeniX
That's probably the answer they would give. Guess that wouldn't mean much if you didn't know before buying :P
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10-03-2007, 04:38 PM #8
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
It's funny you should say that, because I've also seen that exact argument from Counter-Strike players who frequented the PCS server in it's early days and also pretty much got that same response from the Dystopia devs when they hard-capped the player limit. Granted, it was "don't play it," because it was a free mod. Originally Posted by Relmar
At least the Dystopia devs aren't (technically) a business. Valve doesn't really have that "benefit" so it annoys me they've decided to go this route.
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10-03-2007, 05:09 PM #9
Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
Hardcoded hmm... a shame...
I did not try to preach any style of play. I had awesome fun on FF = OFF. FF = ON would be kind of a different gameplay and I would have loved to experience it.
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10-03-2007, 05:19 PM #10
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
demoman wasn't much use, you had to be extremely careful, heavy also had to be careful just because of the spray and pray. Spy testing usually lend to telling someone "sorry for TKing you, thought you were a spy" I don't know, I really didn't care for it.
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10-03-2007, 05:42 PM #11
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
I wish they would to be honest. 3 maximum of each class on a 24 player server as a cap would be perfect. It promotes more teamwork, not less. Originally Posted by TheFeniX
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10-03-2007, 06:00 PM #12
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
What if that limit wasn't something you thought was good? Limit 1-2 one each class? Limit 1 soldier and unlimited spies? The specifics each person might think is valid for a given server is irrelevant. Try and think of a gameplay option your enjoy on certain servers, now imagine that the option was gone. Originally Posted by Morganan
As it stands: we can enforce player-class caps (or will be able to when an admin mod plug-in comes out for it. But, they do exist for TFC). But, imagine that you had no control over that class limit, that it was set in stone with no personal choice in the matter. Heck, if we wanted to, we could have 30 second rounds and 50% player speed. Yes, it'd be horribly stupid and people would fly from our server in droves, but we have that option.
That is what I take issue with, not FF or class limits itself. It's when I'm denied the option of deciding what kind of server side variables I might want to use or a server with those variables I might want to join.
There no longer is a choice if someone wants to "go against the grain" and turn on FF. I may hate (with a passion) servers that load "UT Headshot" .wav files onto their server, but I'm not about to ask valve to remove their ability to do so. I'll just choose not to play there.
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10-03-2007, 06:04 PM #13
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
I'm not a fan of FF on, however I really don't see a reason why the option should be eliminated.
It's Valve's game, so they can do what they like, but this seems like a mistake to me.
Ah well.It's all in the Reflexes.
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10-03-2007, 06:09 PM #14
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
To me it seems they are saying the game was created with the intentions FF=off. While I am not privy to their reasoning for this move, I can guess it has a lot to so with balancing the abilities they gave spies.
As for the class caps I have a few comments about that, but those are better suited for another thread which will probably spring up once the admin tools are released and the question about class caps based on player counts is more applicable.
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10-03-2007, 06:32 PM #15
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Re: Requesting FF = ON tryout
I had the misfortune of playing FF=ON before it was coded out. It sucked big time.
A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek
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