TheFeniX

An effort that dedicated to spawn-camping is probably going to result in a steam-roll for attackers anyways. Now, if that's all they're doing (IE: not capping in the point), I'll come down on them hard.

Enjoyment vs winning is a hard balance to keep. Let's face it: losing, in any capacity, sucks. You could have a great game, back and forth, cap/recap with very balanced teams and it comes down to the last few seconds.

You might not mind so much losing that game, but you damn sure would rather win it.

Having the exterior of your spawn camped sucks. But then you have to ask yourself: why did you let it get there in the first place. You know defenders spawn slower than attackers, so in reality: if 2+ of your teammates are dead, you need to be thinking self-preservation until they respawn and start flooding the area.

At that point, it's harder for attackers to camp when they have to worry about facing defenders from more than one point. We'll never figure out solid counters to plans if we arbitrarily start restricting the game and further set ourselves apart from the normal server. I want us to be above other public servers due to our cohesion, not because we cut out anything that might hinder enjoyment.

I'm really not concerned with spawn-camping going either way. But, I didn't mind actualy spawncamping in ns or Dystopia because there was an objective there, so it's hard for me to come down on sitting outside a spawn killing exiting players. Where exactly do we draw the line?

Is it ok if there's two exits? If they can see outside of spawn without the doors open? How many people can be camping? These are but a few questions we need to answer before we consider adding a rule against spawncamping. It's not as easy as just posting a new rule, because loop-holes are going to come up.

Once you start to regulate a behaivor and make exceptions (can defenders spawncamp? If so, why?) you start delving into rule after rule and leaving loop-holes. It's the same reason I left crack-jumping rules out of TG:TF2. We'd have to make exceptions for soliders, demos, and scouts (primarily) and it just comes down to too much micro-management.

I don't see spawncamping destroying many (if any games) that aren't part of a bigger issue. This is usually lack of cohesion on the team being spawn camped. I hate to start cluttering the rules list with something I don't view as that big a problem. By all means: prove me wrong, but I'd like to see some demos of spawncamping happening "just because."

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grunt

Anyone that thinks that spawn camping is not effective has no idea. First, the entrance teleports go down. Second, if the camper can keep 5 people in spawn then it turns into a 10 v 5 or whatever. Third, when spawn camping on blue, if the rest of the team caps the first point, the spawn camper has a very good chance at solo capping the more difficult 2nd cap point. I've done it dozens of times. It's not about points. The only people that care about points are the ones bragging about it.

With the little team work you can break the camp in a couple of ways.
1. Ask a teammate in voice to fall back and kill the camper.
2. Have someone quickly open and close the door, while a heavy/soldier/demo shoots away the stickies.
3. Have a sacrificial lamb go out first then a medic'd heavy go out second. That would require four stickies to kill the heavy and the demo shouldn't have time for that.
4. Simply go out in a constant stream without pause and the demo can't reload fast enough.
5. If you are being spawn camped by two demos or more then uber out.

Doktor Goku

CORRECTAMUNDO

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

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Doc-in-training

Chewy

To me, it's quite simple. If ANYTHING, including what some or some do not consider spawn camping is not helping to achieve the objective with the team, they will swiftly be dealt with.

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SpadeTF2

I personally think spawn camping is ok. It stops the defense/offense from completing their objectives. Which is how a team gets the win. However, the problem lies within the maps. Many of the maps, eg. Gravel Pit, 2 Fort, Most of Dustbowl, have multiple exit points, which make spawn camping difficult. Maps like Dustbowl Red Stage 2, however make Spawn Camping too easy IMO. With only one exit, if a demo gets behind you, he can cause havoc, and be quite annoying.

I believe though that the flaw lies within the map, and if players/team are smart, and know that, then you set up a defense strategy to prevent the demo from getting behind you.

I would vote NO to a ban on Spawn Camping...

My 2 cents...

Although I do have a comment/question that relates to this, I think I'll give it it's own thread.

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I can eat a rubix cube and poop it solved.

Donagel

Well, perhaps my post insinuated otherwise, but I agree, it doesn't happen often enough to get all worked up about. And if it does, its just fuel for the fire for next round...


Now if we can just get a house rule in about the number of times Magna and Spade can backstab me per round.....

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"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken

Doktor Goku

The obvious answer is to spawn more overlords.

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Fish #641

Man, I'm just invisioning a Starcraft/TF2 spoof where Magna backstabs everything. The way I just described it makes it sound less appealing...hmm