SpadeTF2

When you first sign onto the server it lists a bunch of rules, like most servers, but unlike most servers, one of the rules is:

Teamwork
Players are expected to actively work toward achieving the objective with their team. Those who continually disregard the interest of their team and the objective will be subject to removal from the server.


This rule is one of the biggest reasons I choose to play on the server. It offers players a chance to play a fun, and competive TEAM game. Which, might I add, is difficult to find on many of the others out there.

However, something happened on the server during the weekend that kind of irked me. It was no one's fault, but it's an example of a scenario which conflicts with our teamwork rule.
And is the kind of thing that could turn people away from the server.

This is what happened.

Saturday or sunday afternoon sometime, I was playing on the server. Pretty sure I was the only one there with a TG tag, so it was a pretty lax game, and the team work was slim. I think there was only about 5-6 people per team, and we we're playing gravel pit. Do you feel it? I really painted that picture... it's like you're their with me.

Anyway, Gravel Pit, we had lost point A and were defending point B. When a blue engineer set up a SG at point C, and it was taking out some of our guys. Apparently the guys who don't have sound, since you can hear an SG from half way across the map. Getting to the point... I can't remember who it was, but they gave the engie a couple warnings, and then kicked him from the server. The reason given was "he wasn't helping his team capture the point."

The End

Anyway, I disagree, I think anything that prevents our team from reaching the points we must defend, aids the offending team in capturing those points. Thus, building an SG @ point C would not be breaking any rule we currently have, and thus the "Kick" was uncalled for.

What does everyone else think?



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I know that was a long post, but the girl is complaining I play too much TF2, so I'm cutting back for a couple days. So now I'm going to haunt the forum for a bit.

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RandomGuy

You should try contacting the admin involved. Since you understandably don't remember who it was you can contact any other admin. We can try checking the logs and clarify the situation.

Further discussion in this forum should stick to the tactic of putting a sentry gun at point C while working on capturing point B. Personally I only see it being effective against an unorganized defending team.

Doktor Goku

^^This- or at least try and figure out which admin it is.

If what you're saying is the whole story, then that sounds like abuse of the rules to me- but I guess we'll find out.

Hey admins- does this sound familiar?

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Doc-in-training

SpadeTF2

Even if I could remember who it was, I probably wouldn't say anyway. I'm just trying to clear up what constitutes "working to achieve your team's goal." It was probably just a error in judgement, or this engie could of been cursing his mouth off on the other team's chat, I don't know.

I just figured I'd bring it up, since the topic of spawn camping, and the definition of the rules has been a recent topic here.

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I can eat a rubix cube and poop it solved.

ROCKS

I agree with you. I sometimes go for the entrance to house that transitions between C and B to put up resistance to the opposing team. This keeps them from getting to the point we are trying to get and helps thin out resistance for the rest of the team.

Ferris Bueller

I've seen this strategy in play before and the SG is generally aimed at the spawn doors, which, by our rules, constitutes spawncamping. If thats the case, then it was a righteous bump.

If he had it simple guarding the entrances to A and B and not pointing at the spawn area, then thats just poor defense by the team being slaughtered by it. One spy or two rockets=dead SG.

The important issue for the "not helping the team" bit is whether or not his team told him specifically to stop. If they were asking for his help and he just decided to lonewolf and ignore them, thats grounds for a kick. Teamwork isnt just encouraged guys, its a requirement. Keep that in mind.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

kormendi

Its not spawn camping unless the sentry was built inside the spawn room.

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Augustus Gloop

Not being a TF2 player, I'm understandably a little rough on this call:

Spawn camping includes:

• being in the spawn area/ucb with your knife bared stabbing people in the back
• Being 200 meters away and firing into the spawn area/ucb to kill people
• Dropping orbital artillery into the spawn area/ucb to kill people

Please feel free to disregard me if I'm wrong about the specifics of your game.

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MagnaCentipede

In TF2, all spawnzones are in rooms with automated doors, and a one-way 'smart' barrier that prevents the enemy team from physically entering the room.

But if there's only one gate, and about half the time there is, guess what happens when the three stooges move in with explosives, a flamethrower, and an aimbot.

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Eternaly_Lost

Sorry there but, to spawn camp in TF2 you have to be in the spawn room. Otherwise on just about ever map the spawns can spawn in safely, take a few secs or minutes to do whatever they want, before they move into range of opponent weapons. Unless you move in front of the doors or very close to the doors, there is no way to can die in the spawn room. And if you are in fount of of the doors only bullets and flames go though the door to spawn( I think rockets and splash does too ).

Because in every case( on a correctly made map ) you have to move yourself away from where you spawn in to be hit, and killed. You can not be spawn camped, you can be prevented from leaving the spawn room, but not prevented from spawning in and doing something.

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Current game name : |TG| Lost the Phantom Thief

Augustus Gloop

I stand corrected! Carry on.

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Ponicus

I'm torn on this issue, but with the map certainly not full, I think it was maybe a harsh kick from the server. Not really playing fully with the team is a little different than hurting the team, isn't it? I dunno, whatever the consensus is I will go with.

Also, I find that in some of these situations with out servers it's not so much as a player playing wrong but a newer player simply not knowing exactly what to do, such as someone trying engie out and not knowing the sweet spots to build things. I at least try to be helpful and give advice first if that is ever the root of the problem.

TheSkudDestroyer

In Project Reality Baserape/UCB camping would involve PREVENTING team movement from thier spawn.

this is just a tricky area. In the interest of gameplay, I just don't do these things.

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TheFeniX

There is an objective in some UCBs in BF2. I also recall spawn camping to be ok when all other CBs are owned by the camping team.

The admin team didn't come to the conclusion of allowing external spawn camping lightly. It was carefully weighed not only against our thoughts on TF2 gameplay, but also gameplay from other titles at TG.

The defenders spawn in Gravelpit HAS an objective, provided the other caps are owned by attackers or defenders have teleporter entrances there.. BUT there may be a reason to camp C before that if the attacking team is in the process of capping A or B and you are running a diversion.

It's a judgment call an admin has to make and we're human: we could be wrong. I've slayed players in gray areas of PCS when I thought they were kill hunting. The main thing is that the person is working with their team. Just going off to defenders spawn to score kills while not bothering to explain your intent to an admin on your team is going to result in action taken against you.

Admins are human and we are going to make bad calls every once in a while, but I'm not so sure this was one of those times. But I will ask in the future, non-admins content themselves with only taking action against rule-breakers if it's clearly outlined in the rule-set. It's mainly to help us police rude and abusive players and sprays.

If you're ever not sure about a call, differ to an admin or save it for a post in the Contact an admin forum.

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westyfield

I don't quite understand this, when you place a sentry it shows you which way it will be facing, but they seem to have 360 degree rotation so surely wherever it is placed it will be facing the doors.
Please correct me if I am wrong, I don't play engineer much on TF2.

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