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08-23-2008, 01:19 PM #1
Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
http://www.gamevee.com/viewVideo/Tea...reg_Bug/690296
A bug that was introduced a few patches ago into TF2.
Basically in some games the headshot registration will be fine. In others, you'll have a lot of shots that should count as headshots be bodyshots which will result in you getting killed. Just to give you an idea, a uncharged headshot in TF2 does 150 damage, and an uncharged bodyshot does 50 damage. Good snipers often favour being more mobile by constantly moving and remaining out of scope except when doing a kill. This is generally how I play so I'm dependent on headshots. So you can imagine how crippling this can be for me when someone who was supposed to take 150 damage is now running after me with only 50 damage.
It's been happening for a while but I haven't really spoke out (besides whining about it over vent or voicechat, but nobody understanding what I was talking about) about it because 1. I never could find a good enough clip to demonstrate this, most of my no-reg shots were twitch aim which could of been misses, its hard to see, however I know they are headshots. 2. It happens so sparatically, on some games its fine, on some its not. 3. Nobody else really complained about it.
In this video it was pre-match. A medic starts attacking me. I give him a quick headshot (the game knows I shot him in the head because blood appears on his head). However, no "critical hit" sound or words come up, and in the death picture you can clearly see he's got about 50 damage on him, so you can rule out him being buffed. All pings were about under 50 in this game so there's no reason for this.
Just to give you an idea of how serious this can be, if this was a real match that medic that should of died now has 50% of his uber charged up, is able to heal his teammates, and use that uber to push in and kill my team. This happens in several other situations too, especially when sniper dueling, I headshot the other sniper, he only takes 50 damage and then he bodyshots me and kills me because he charged up his shot and came around the corner slowly while I did not. This happens also to soliders who are after me, scouts, spies, basically any class, and the times that the headshots should of counted but don't are the times that I die since I most of the time put myself into the danger to kill somebody but since 50 damage is basically nothing on a lot of classes they can proceed to bumrush me, and at that point the SMG and Machete are absolutely useless and won't kill even a fly.
This is sometimes a strech, but sometimes I feel like it's as bad as the spies backstab registration. Some games are really that bad where I'm literally bodyshotting heavies that are spun up.
I have tried everything. I've messed around with some of my network configuration and screwed with some of the tick rate and whatever settings in console. But really, if thats what I have to do to get headshots working, theres a glitch in the game. Valve really needs to fix this.
EDIT: Just as an extension of the video, you'll notice that in the background that same medic just got killed and then respawned. So he was at full health, unbuffed. I know theres lag problems but the game KNOWS I shot him first since it registered as a bodyshot, however since it wasn't a headshot he killed me a second later.
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08-23-2008, 01:59 PM #2
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Did the medic attest to taking body damage? Otherwise, it's very possible the medic's saw hit the server on an older timestamp than the sniper's shot. If the medic didn't attack until after being shot, it would be great evidence in any case.
Uncharged body blow seems to be about 35 to 65; it seemed pretty wild when I was testing weapons.
"the game knows I shot him in the head because blood appears on his head"
I would like to introduce you to Source engine. Blood is meaningless. ALWAYS. Blood is calculated by a trace from your CLIENT position against any PREDICTED entities that are on your screen. Hit effects are purely window-dressing to cover up the truly slight real-world latency. Without hitboxes being drawn you have no clue at all where the server has the medic.
I have a suspicion that there is a big problem in the prediction or latency correction system, and that it is the root of problems for both spy and sniper. I told them to fix it and they said they'd look into it, so I guess it's up to me to continue improving my coding skills so I can make a non-suck game someday.
You need a film editor. After all that taunting I expected Rick Astley to appear to break the tension/boredom.


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08-23-2008, 02:05 PM #3
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
I know what you're saying, but I've had it happen even if we're both still alive. like a headshot another sniper, he doesn't die due to it counting as a bodyshot, and we both take cover. If you need further proof I'll play some more and try to find another good clip.
Either way this was never a problem since a few patches ago. Headshots were always headshots.
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08-23-2008, 02:44 PM #4
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
No need to go out of your way for my sake. Maybe I'll test something out for you tonight...



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08-23-2008, 02:51 PM #5
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Thanks. I'm trying to get in touch with the guy in that video to ask him if he took damage.

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08-23-2008, 03:58 PM #6
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
I tested something out, but it didn't provide any useful information beyond confirming that the blood effect is completely bogus and can't be trusted for anything.



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08-24-2008, 02:35 AM #7
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Yoshi, do you play or have you played much counterstrike?
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08-24-2008, 02:49 AM #8
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08-25-2008, 11:29 AM #9
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Do you find the lag compensation and hit detection to be the same?
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08-25-2008, 01:15 PM #10
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
They aren't. Lag compensation is a data processing system. Hit detection is the experience of the players, which is partly the result of lag compensation.
The super-short version is thus: In the days before lag compensation, hit reg was almost flawless. The only issues were you needed to lead your target appropriately, per latency, and a low simulation rate, often around 20/second, which meant a high-speed player could 'warp' through a bullet's path. The technology just wasn't availiable ten years ago to do much about that. Source innovates with lag compensation, which is supposed to ensure that hit reg is based on visual models to solve the first issue in the old system, with the second issue addressed by simply running higher simulation rates, up to 500/second or so.
Thus, hit reg quality is now subject to lag compensation quality.


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08-25-2008, 01:32 PM #11
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
I meant "do you find the (TF2) experience consistent with counterstrike?".
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08-25-2008, 01:54 PM #12
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Personally I always thought CS hitreg was okay. Maybe it was because valve didn't change it in stealth updates every other month.
TF2 hitreg is a little more forgiving.
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08-25-2008, 03:19 PM #13
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Counterstrike's hitreg issues are actually very small, but they are amplified by the nature of the game, where a headshot is three by four pixels, and if it doesn't count you die to the other guy's headshot. The issue with hitboxes seems to be quite similar between CSS and TF2/Sniper, except that the CSS flaw is 1% as large. In CSS, you die because you shot someone in the head with your DE, you die, and the report comes back Left Arm, 36 in 1; or you live to fire twice and the second headshot counts. In TF2, you live long enough to repeat an action three times, and see three headshots not count, or five revolver rounds register one or two hits, or butter knife shows off its fail.
If CSS hitreg was as goofy as TF2's, no one would play it.


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08-26-2008, 02:19 AM #14
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
Grrrrr this always happens when i snipe.
Good thing im not using a controller or it would be thrown at the wall
Thank god for wired keyboards
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08-29-2008, 01:34 PM #15
Re: Sniper no-reg problems (video proof)
This must be the reason I am such a bad sniper. Its the games fault...it all makes sense now.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." - H. L. Mencken
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