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Discussion: Team Fortress 2 / Team Fortress 2 - General Discussion - Server Size? - Having played this game entirely too much all week, I really think 12v12 is way
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09-22-2007, 07:25 AM #1
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Server Size?
Having played this game entirely too much all week, I really think 12v12 is way too big. Anybody else think we should bring it down? The map sizes aren't enough to accomodate so many people very well, so you get tons of stalemates leading to sudden death. Smaller teams means fewer engineers and less turret spam, individual deaths leave teams more vulnerable so you're more likely to see openings for flag or control point caps, and the teams are more personal so it's easier to work out a strategy. I think we should bring it down to 8v8 or 9v9. Another server would be needed to accomodate people(NS has a second one that nobody uses :P) but the quality of play would really go up.
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09-22-2007, 10:24 AM #2
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Re: Server Size?
Yes. 2 servers of 8 v 8. Here here.
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09-22-2007, 10:39 AM #3
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Re: Server Size?
For me, if the Team's are balanced skill wise, the size of the server is really a non starter.
It could be 12 vs 12, 2 vs 2 or 24 vs 24 and it won't matter if one team is really that much better than the other. It also won't matter much if they are of even skill and the size goes down. I can almost argue that it takes MORE team play and coordination on a 12vs 12 server than it does on a smaller size due to the factors you stated.
Where is the push? How many are coming? Are your defenses fortified? Where is their weak point? Similar issues regardless of team size. And you can pay just as large a price if you're wrong or unprepared. Maybe just quicker than you can on a smaller server?
I really, REALLY feel this is an overblown issue with regards to how fun this game can be and is. Maybe in a Match situation it would play different but I don't think map size is a problem either.
Now, having said that, I'm not opposed to changing the size of the server to see if it really does play any differently. It's early and now is the time to tweak. Maybe I'm totally wrong and a smaller server will be THAT much more fun and have that many more valid tactics and gameplay enhancements.
But honestly, I've played smaller servers over the past 2 days and it's all come back to team skill and willinging to work together. The amount of guys running around just didn't seem to really change all that.
Outside of being a D guy. It seems you had more time to reset after an offensive than you do on a larger server.
I think coming into TF2, the biggest adjustment for me has been coming from a squad of 5 in the BF games to basically a squad of 12 here. No Commander and no SL's also plays a part, but now that I've gotten more used to it, it's not so much of a problem.
But hey, it can't hurt to give it a shot right? If it does happen, I really think it has to be as you and others have stated before...on a second, maybe TG only server? Right now, our waiting list is massive and shrinking the server size would seem to add more problems than it fixes.
IMO anyway.
*edit* Damn you Bhack! Posting while I was typing!!! Yes, two servers of 8 vs 8 would work. Or one 12 vs 12 and the other 8 vs 8?Last edited by Nemesis; 09-22-2007 at 10:54 AM.
It's all in the Reflexes.
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09-22-2007, 11:03 AM #4
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Re: Server Size?
10v10 or 8v8 sounds good. 24 would be fine, but the maps would need to be just a hair bigger.
|TG-12th|Undead
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09-22-2007, 11:21 AM #5
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Re: Server Size?
12v12 is far too tiny for me, and we had a server full of SMs last night. It's hard to get a "flow of battle" situation with all the little individual skirmishes going on. Two players dropping at a key time when another two are sitting at the respawn screen, and that round is blown. Since we're talking about making pop changes again in another thread is it possible to go bigger?
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09-22-2007, 11:29 AM #6
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Re: Server Size?
No way!
Originally Posted by Bommando
I knew this game was going to be awesome after the 'meet the heavy' video came out.
"HAHAHAHAHHA CRY SOME MOOOORE!"
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09-22-2007, 11:37 AM #7
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Re: Server Size?
I knew it was going to be awesome when I first heard about. Or saw the first video of the cartoon action year in a half ago I think. Originally Posted by BHack
|TG-12th|Undead
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09-22-2007, 12:16 PM #8
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Re: Server Size?
Server size seems to be an on-going debate with every game when it first starts up. I doubt the size will be changing, at least right away. There has not been enough game-play to warrant any changes.
I will say this... when the server is full of SMs, 12 on 12 seems much more fun and organized than when not. If you are not a SM and was kicked for an SM, why not become now so you too can enjoy the fun we're all having!?
Shameless plugs... ugh.
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09-22-2007, 12:35 PM #9
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Re: Server Size?
I find 12 v 12 to be a perfect number for the size of maps they have provided. I have no desire to play with smaller numbers. I can't really see what would make it better.
I would like to see a second TG server, though. There are only a few spots on the server now being taken by non-SMs at the best of times.Peace through fear... since 1947!
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09-22-2007, 01:21 PM #10
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Re: Server Size?
This isn't Battlefield. Realistically there is no "flow of battle" situation in TF2 - everyone respawns in 10~ seconds and can be right back to where they were in as much time. The problem with such large games is that the only way to make progress on the map is to kill everyone present and move forward before they come back, and given the specifics of TF2, it is very difficult do to that when you have so many people. That's why you see Sudden Death so often, which is an incredibly unsatisfying way to end a game. When the game is small, there's a lot more back-and-forth; losing one skirmish means you get pushed back a control point, but fight off their next offense and you'll have an opportunity to take it back again. Originally Posted by WaffleHousChef
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09-22-2007, 01:25 PM #11
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Re: Server Size?
There are times where I'd prefer it was actually larger than 12 vs. 12. Lowering the population to a 16-person server means that everyone has to be on the ball with group makeup and numbers on offense vs. numbers on defense. With a 24-person server if you have a couple extra people prefering to play D it won't completely tank the rest of your side. 12 vs. 12 seems to be pretty well balanced for the size of the maps we're seeing, and by cutting team sizes down by a third I'd be worried that we'd see more turtling in bases, especially when one side is close to losing. Far from eliminating stalemates, I think that reducing team sizes would make the situation worse.
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09-22-2007, 01:40 PM #12
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Re: Server Size?
Guys, it's 11am on a Saturday and the server is (once again) full. In fact, it's been staying full during peak hours. Here's the graph for the past 24 hours:
The server has had 4 hours of downtime (player-wise) in the past 24 hours. Most of the people on last night were SMs. I couldn't even think about reducing the player count yet. And seriously guys... 4am server full? Get some sleep.
Once things level off, I'll work towards getting a group of players together to test smaller games.
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09-22-2007, 02:15 PM #13
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Re: Server Size?
Well, can we get a second server with a smaller size? No matter how you look at it, the one we have now is too crowded.
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09-22-2007, 02:17 PM #14
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Re: Server Size?
LOL. I was on the server late night. Just a couple SMs on at the time but we had some great games!
The way I see it, the maps and playercounts are sized as the developers intended, and feel just about right.Beatnik
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09-22-2007, 02:25 PM #15
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Re: Server Size?
I personally like 12v12, anything smaller and I would find myself searching for players more often then I would like (something I sometimes do with this 'larger' size already).
TFC was all about chaos and fast action. If I have to go around looking for targets I may get bored fairly quick.
I love gaming, mmmmmmmm
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