Spy question

**KnifeHeavy** · 10-08-2007, 11:06 AM

I fail at spy, really fail.

So I have two questions concerning spys and how they look to the opposing team.
1) i have heard that spys take on what ever class they are disguised as ie scouts are faster then spy disguised as scout faster?

2) what does firing your weapon look like to the enemy when disguised? (I have an assumption about this one, your disguise drops and you are revealed)

**Atomic Dog** · 10-08-2007, 11:14 AM

1) I believe spies move as fast as spies regardless of kit disguise. I've spotted spies disguised as heavies by their speed of movement. And not only do they take on the appearance of the opposing team, the disguise changes your name tag as well to match a player on the opposing team.

2) You're correct, firing your weapon drops your disguise.

**Tarenth** · 10-08-2007, 11:17 AM

You lose your disguise automatically when you attack with anything but the sapper. I think that when you apply the sapper it looks like a melee attack. I know there have been some occasions where I'd see 3 engineers clustered around one sentry gun and they're all swinging their wrenchs, but we only have 2 on the team and one of them is a spy constantly dropping a sapper.

Its the 'tree in forest' affect for me when that happens. If there are multiple engineers around some deployables and a spy is disguised an an engineer then its a lot harder to distinguish who the spy is than if it was any other class. You also don't want to fire indiscriminately into the group to catch the spy if friendly fire is on and you're more likely to kill both engineers, lose you deployables, and THEN kill the spy. -.-

**KnifeHeavy** · 10-08-2007, 11:20 AM

Thanks guys!
Yea I knew about the tag thing - I had actually passed a guy who had my name on dustbowl and my medic in vent said uhhh maybe you should shoot him???

**Chewy** · 10-08-2007, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by KnifeHeavy

...my medic in vent said uhhh maybe you should shoot him???

Haha... that must have been fun!

**DirtyLude** · 10-08-2007, 11:35 AM

I hate spies, but I recognize that they probably have the highest learning curve to play really well. There are all sorts of things about picking the right disguise for the right moment and learning how to move properly to emulate the other team.

One thing I've seen spies do alot to give themselves away is to stare at other players on the team. I know you are just waiting for them to turn around or somebody to be singled out for a backstab, but you have to think of it like a public shower; If you stare at people on your own team for too long, people start to get suspicious.

**Tarenth** · 10-08-2007, 11:40 AM

One thing I tend to do is panic and cloak while not in a spy disguise. -.-

Nothing like a heavy going invisible to draw attention to yourself and indirect fire from everyone, their best friend, their best friend's mother, their best friend's mother's mother, and their best friend's mother's mother's bridge group.

Alternatively if you're disguised as a spy you can cloak as much as you want and since the only way to show your team you're in disguise is a paper mask over your face you can get away with it as long as you don't face anyone.

**DeimosManifest** · 10-08-2007, 01:10 PM

You move at spy speed if you disguise as a class that is faster than you, or as the class's speed if you disguise as one slower than a spy.

If you attack with anything but the sapper, your disguise instantly goes away.

Also if you cloak while disguised as an enemy, you cloak YOUR color. So if you're disguised as a red spy and cloak, you'll fade away BLUE. And everyone will still shoot at you.

**Sirusblk** · 10-08-2007, 01:48 PM

The best way to play a spy is to not go looking for kills and backstabs. You're whole goal is to to stay alive and sap turrets, leave change disguise and sap some more stuff.

The spy is meant to be played with patience. If you take your time, survive and do nothing but sap 3 turrets you'll instantly be at the top of your team in no time. A kill gets you one point but sapping a turret is like getting you 5 points or more. It's worth it.

Don't go in the middle of a battle, when you're not firing it's pretty easy to notice so. Also if you're hurt call for a medic it makes sense.

Stay away from engineers, take down a dispenser no ones looking at. Engineers are parinoid and will always shoot you.

Act like a class that's supposed to be there. Snipers hang back. Heavys, soldiers and demoman are always running out of ammo.

Disguise as a popular class. When a demoman runs buy and checks his team and sees he's the only demo, you're boned.

Want those backstabs? Make sure no turrets are around. Make sure everyone is charging on the enemy team, get behind them, back stab chain your way back. Useful for those medic heavy combos. Medic first then heavy then run away.

Take your time

**NCman** · 10-08-2007, 02:44 PM

Another one that I've had some success with, mainly on Hydro, is the Spy Cap. Some of those Hydro map combos have only one real route between you and the enemy. The teams usually focus on the midfield area and leave the CP itself totally undefended. No way a scout is getting through the heavy-med combos charging up backed by a few turrets, right?

But a cloaked spy - gets right through after a few tries, and finds not a single turret or sticky bomb on the flag. Uncloak / undisguise when you get to the CP, and you get a capture!

The problem is a lone spy is often able to get the CP only about 3/4 capped by the time a few engineers run back, or someone spawns and is able to get you. What would work well here is to have two spies, either both capping at the same time, or for one to find a good hiding spot, and wait for the defenders to disperse after killing the first spy. The 2nd spy jumping on the CP when it's still halfway capped could probably complete the capture before the defense reacts again.

If nothing else, trying a Spy Cap distracts the enemy team, and causes them to consider pulling back some midfield defense to actively cover the CP area.

Also, if your team doesn't have a spy, get one - at least occasionally. Having someone go spy and make a run at the sentries or the snipers, even if unsuccessful, makes the enemy team expend some of their attention towards spy-checking. A soldier or demo can go spy for a life, then switch back when they die. This works well even on the defensive side of maps like Dustbowl and Gravel Pit. A full-time spy may not really be needed (Pablo excluded of course, since he stabs the entire enemy team at once) - but having an occasional spy keeps the enemy guessing, and on their toes.

Another tip - be careful when uncloaking when your meter is low. There's a lag / delay in the game reacting to your button press to uncloak, and sometimes it starts doing so after the meter runs out, which starts cloaking you again. Probably if you just have a second or so left on the cloak, you're better off just letting it run out and uncloak automatically, and leave the button alone.

And, don't cloak when a pyro burns you - your flames are still visible around you. While you'll probably die anyway if the pyro keeps after you or his teammates see you, you're better off sticking with a disguise and running - you might fool them into thinking you're a friendly hit by an enemy pyro. Or just start shooting, you might take a few with you - you've already been discovered.

**KnifeHeavy** · 10-08-2007, 03:42 PM

Im just gonna spec stablo and steal his strats -wtf!!!!!

**Sirusblk** · 10-09-2007, 02:29 AM

Use those calls too! As a medic disguised, any comm you use, not just the medic call but even the "Go go go" to the "Flank Left" and more is spoken using your disguise. It might just be enough to fool the enemy although don't count on it...

**Lucky Shot** · 10-09-2007, 02:37 AM

For those turrets or dispensers that absolutely have to go down regardless of your survival what you do is position the asset between yourself and the Engineer. Place the sapper and continue to place. His wrench will knock off the sappers but not heal the damage done if you place another sapper right on top. Eventually something will give and the assets will go down. If there are two assets there, chances are the Engy will die in the explosion. I am surprised that we haven't seen 2 man spy combos often where one saps and the other knifes the engy.

Lucky Shot

**Sirusblk** · 10-09-2007, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky Shot

For those turrets or dispensers that absolutely have to go down regardless of your survival what you do is position the asset between yourself and the Engineer. Place the sapper and continue to place. His wrench will knock off the sappers but not heal the damage done if you place another sapper right on top. Eventually something will give and the assets will go down. If there are two assets there, chances are the Engy will die in the explosion. I am surprised that we haven't seen 2 man spy combos often where one saps and the other knifes the engy.

Lucky Shot

I've tryed to organize those and it's tough however having two players together both disguised discourages spy checks. I hope to see more spy teams. getting each others back is just too important. Even if a pyro comes up and manages to flame one of you, the other can sidestep and backstab.