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Discussion: Team Fortress 2 / Team Fortress 2 - Tactics & Map Discussion - The Scout - "Eat it fatty!" - The Scout --------- Every class in TF2 has its role, and of course, the scout
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    Avs
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    The Scout - "Eat it fatty!"

    The Scout
    ---------
    Every class in TF2 has its role, and of course, the scout finds itself both useful in offensive operations, as well as defensive counters as well. The scout class signature move, the double jump, allows him to attack and evade at the same time in the hands of a skilled user. His speed also allows him to close in on targets to deal maximum damage, while reducing the ability of a player to properly respond (under normal circumstances). The scout's ability to also capture CPs at twice the rate of a normal player makes him easily the most capture oriented class on offense, but all in all, this class has its many faults as well. There are three important points that scouts must keep in mind when playing. 1. Speed and maneuverability are key to survival. 2. Pick off weaker classes and avoid stronger ones (heavies, soldiers, pyros), your ability to cause chaos in the opposing force's ranks helps both you and your team advance. 3. Capture points are not your primary objective though you capture it faster than others. While it helps in public games by giving your team first advantage in momentum control, against any coordinated team, you cannot capture CPs by yourself, take out sentries (unless they are unguarded), and otherwise other loner roles. Remember, this is Team Fortress, not scout rush madness (though this works in, well pubs). An example would be the scout rush on Granary only to be countered by a less scouts to stop the capture and a pyro.

    The Basics
    ---------

    Scattergun - This gun fires 10 pellets, spread in the same fashion the shotgun fires. The damage however is twice that of a shotgun on average estimates. (What I mean here is that this weapon takes half the number of shots needed to kill <insert class> as compared to the shotgun. In this game exact damage values are not needed, only that you keep in mind what your weapons have the potential of doing, at what range these potentials are, and against said targets). This weapon, is effective (as in maxed potential) at 10 feet. Any further means your spread will not completely hit a target. Of course, firing at moving targets, at slim targets (scout) as opposed to fa-, big-boned ones (heavies), will change the average effectiveness of your weapon even if it can do X damage. The average damage it does at full effectiveness is around 80. Typically you can kill light classes in 2 hits, medium ones in 3, and heavies ones in 3-4 (at point blank). Factoring in your ability to stay with a target while moving, while they are also moving, will mean that unless you are behind them, these numbers won't show. But you have probably noticed how scouts are "overpowered" these days, and are highly destructive in players such as Fehmart, and other users who have spent time working on their scouts.

    Use of weapon: Get behind someone, run up to them, start firing at point blank. Do not use your bat. See my other post about melee damages, the bat is one of the weakest ones as the scout is not fit for hand to hand. You must reload your weapon whenever you break combat (dodge, duck around a corner, or diverge your aiming reticule away from your target), or you will find that combat outside your weapon's effectiveness is almost impossible to upkeep.

    The Pistol – The scout’s pistol serves less purpose than the engineers due to ammo capacity. However, the pistol’s several clips are easily enough to finish off most targets that have been unloaded on with a scattergun. But since the idea of the scattergun is to stay close to the target and pummel him before he knows it, the pistol’s most useful purposes is to destroy sentries at range. We all know that sentry guns beat scouts in almost all areas. Thankfully though, there are enough bullets in the pistol to destroy even a level 3 gun just outside its range. Yet it will be rare to find a turret that is left unguarded, so really, the pistol is most useful in disrupting snipers, or picking off a target that is running away from you (and presumably hurt).

    Pistol Purposes:
    1. Destroy sentries from afar. The pistol is powerful enough to knock out level 3 sentries that are unguarded. I can do this at any range, and not take damage. Closer is better because it means you will miss less.
    2. Draw attention or divert attention. Just shoot at them, or near them to confuse them.
    3. Knock away stickies. Blast away with your pistol to move those stickies off the CP so you can sit on the CP. Make sure you use your head and knock away the least number of stickies so that you have some room. Chances are is that the demo will detonate at first sign of CP and this gives you space. Similarly you can tap the CP to trigger a detonation of stickies.
    4. Stop a sniper from hitting you. The pistol is accurate enough to hit targets far away, and disrupt a sniper's aim while scoped in. Use this along with your sidestep.

    Tips: Don't use it unless you are out of ammo or following one of the above. Feel free to use it once you are comfortable with judging exactly how much damage you deal so that you can kill someone with a single clip of pistol when they are running away with ease. Don't use it in close combat as a single reload + shot of a scattergun deals much more damage per second.

    Bat – When you are out of ammo with the scattergun and in close corridors and have decent aim, use this. The bat should really only be used for destroying structures that don't shoot back, people who can't shoot back, and when you run out of ammo and have your target in a bear hug. While i have not tested the reload and fire time vs weapon switch and swing time, the extra scattergun shot will beat out the bat in most situations. This weapon is almost entirely situational, when you have the jump on someone and can whack at them without any consequence.

    Tips:

    The most important thing as a scout is to be aware. Knowing what is out there keeps you alive. Tunnel vision on a target will likely kill you (ie. Firing on a medic when a soldier comes around behind you).

    1. The ideology of the scout from the developers are as follows: light fast class for people who adore the combat style, yet forcing the class to close in on the target for killing power thus exposing it to danger as a tradeoff for speed and agility. Soldiers, demomen, heavies, and almost every other class easily have the potential of killing scouts outright given reaction time and aim. Consider this example, to kill a heavy you must stay close to him for at least 4 shots. The heavy needs only 1.29 seconds of constant fire to kill you at that range. The soldier only needs a direct hit with his rocket to almost kill or outright kill you, and or jump you into the air which he can then easily kill you with another well aimed rocket or shotgun shot. You must understand this guerilla style of fighting (hit and run, up close and personal) to be an effective scout. The rewards and risks are about equal when considering his main weapon.

    2. Leapfrog technique. No this isn't some fancy move though its got a name to it. This is where you fire behind your target until he spins and double jump over him as he turns. He then sees nothing and you've probably killed him with another few shots. This isn't used very often because it is dangerous and actually pretty hard to do as you will probably find that you’ll be timing the jump even if he doesn’t turn around to compensate for the time it takes to get into the air and over his head vs. the time it would take for him to spin around. Things that can go wrong usually involve someone hitting you mid air, which is not fun at all. For example, doing this against a demoman may result in an instagib since the nade arcs into you. Try to crouch jump on the second jump for more control and better height to actually make it over someone’s head.

    3. Circling. Not every pro-scout jumps while dodging. The simplest way to avoid someone is to turn with them (as opposed to what most do, turn away or counter to). Technically the move refers to someone approaching from the front and then getting behind someone (you can do this by jumping as well). In this case, since this class is preferred in engaging from the back like other classes, you just turn with the target, so that you stay behind them. (I realize that this is difficult and dependent on how fast you can react to someone who may do a 180 on you).

    4. Jump dodging (or whatever you call it). It’s simple, your second (double jump) jump in a different direction than your initial jump while firing. The rapid change in direction will fake out most people you fight. You can also use this to jump and fire into someone, then double jump backwards away from them or to the side to give yourself that hit and run advantage. This is the most common move you see. If you want to put some technique into it, try finding a shape or pattern you can easily aim while in the air with. Lots of players just randomly jump around and miss a lot. Others might jump around in a box shape and fire at each pivot point. Having an idea of what you are doing here will help you focus on dodging and jumping, or buy yourself time to reload.

    5. An extension of the double jump is a more difficult move. Most of the jumps are all away from your original origin. However, some tricky scouts will jump below a level (such as off a edge/cliff point, then jump back up). In the time it takes gravity to pull you down from the apex of your first jump .8 seconds, you can use your second jump on a delay to move back to the beginning height you started at. This move is excellent in diverting attention away from yourself as most people naturally expect you to drop down a level. Take the ravine in ts_hydro, you can do a low leap across it giving you cover and flanking advantage against targets on the other side instead of jumping high making yourself a target. Another way of looking at this move is where you jump so that half your body is below the ledge, thus reducing the hitbox by around 50% before you jump back up to your original height. It is only useful in rare occasions but it may be extremely effective if losing ground or faking out the enemy is necessary. A lesser version of this jump would be to not wait for you to drop before crouch jumping back to the original position, and instead, just jump in the direction you came from to return to your exact spot.

    6. You can also do a long-er extended jump. While a double jump can get you places up high. You can delay your second jump a great deal and thus extend air time for extra distance. Some scouts always jump at the apex of their height instead of considering to use their second jump at other variable heights (such as double jumping under low overhangs or doorsways where you’d normally get stopped by the ceiling).



    Scouts on different map types

    Scouts on CTF: These guys are the fastest so naturally you should give them the flag to cap (use L to drop intelligence after you've stormed the IR, int room). Other than that however, there should be relatively few scouts on CTF maps as sentries in close corridors will make scouts virtually useless deep in enemy territory if they are by themselves. On maps such as 2fort, use doublejump to your advantage to bound off of the middle bridge, onto the battlements on the opposite side. You can easily kill snipers this way, but watch out for soldiers and demos who can make life difficult.

    Scouts on TC: In theory a scout capture should be difficult considering there is usually one choke or two chokes the scout would need to bypass, and therefore would have to dodge the entire incoming team at the start for a quick capture. Delays only give time for the engineer(s) to setup sentries which then make it impossible for scouts to cap. On the TC map, the scout largely has their capture role reduced due to the beefed up defense. Again there should be few scouts, who’s primary objective may be to flank and pick off the enemy’s medics and lighter classes, or to assist with a strong push on the CP while others are ubered (works well since 4x captures fast). Two scouts working together can very easily pistol down a sentry gun that is left alone.

    Scouts on CP: This is probably the best game type for scouts as they are constantly given a chance to go capture CPs and play offense or defense whenever necessary. Scouts here are given the most freedom in movement, often utilizing their roles to recon positions and pick off loners ahead of the contested CP. A quick scout capture from the start gives you a great advantage as the game rewards attackers. Just keep in mind if the other team comes in with heavier classes, they only need to send two scouts to delay your capture while their pyros move in for cleanup to where their soldiers and heavies can take the point.

    Countering Scouts with different classes

    Soldier – Shotgun if they are far away or just don’t bother. Within medium range however try to jump and fire where their second jump will land. Close range – Fire at their feet, their low hp should guarantee you the kill every time unless the scout has ambushed you.

    Demo – Usually one direct hit with your grenade will kill a scout. Yet his speed will make this difficult unless you already have great aim with the grenades in general. Also in most cases, the closer a target is the easier it is to aim with your grenade. In general however, if you can’t kill the scout at close range with grenades in 4 shots, you’re already dead. And it’s obvious that at long ranges, it’s going to be impossible to kill a scout who sees the nades flying at him. If a scout does try to close on you from a distance however (instead of going around and getting you from behind), backpedal and drop stickies to blow him up when he comes around the corner. Demomen are prime targets for scouts to kill as most cannot hit a fast moving target.

    Pyro – Just flame them, and then shotgun when they are outside the range of your flamethrower.

    Heavy - Heavies often have a problem where they are too focused on one direction. Heavies need to turn around and chaingun whip enemies that try to sneak up on him. For scouts, its simple, just point in their general direction and wipe them off the floor.

    Sniper - The best way is really to be aware of the area. One shot from the sniper rifle while zoomed decently (charged) will kill a scout so if you’re quick, scouts are no problem. But really, practice on hitting with your sub-machinegun as it can kill a scout quickly if you hit him in succession.

    Spies – Just stay away from them if you can. Otherwise, a few revolver shots will kill a scout easily.

    Medics and Engineers – Use your primary weapon to fend them off, but don’t expect to kill a good scout without excellent aiming on your part. Your weapons can easily cut them down but they will likely soften you up with a pistol before engaging with the scattergun just to toy with you. If they try to bat you, you can easily take them down with your melee weapons two hits.
    Last edited by Avs; 10-22-2007 at 03:37 AM.

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    MagnaCentipede's Avatar

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    Re: The Scout - "Eat it fatty!"

    I'm going to say you're wrong about the bat. Yeah, the bat is lower damage than most melee, but anyone who's played on the server with me has likely seen me knock two or three out of the park in seconds. The trick is knowing when the bat is better than reloading a shotgun shell, and that's completely based on the location, the opponent's class*, and your lag differential.

    * I love medics. They're like magical bat magnets. DONK DONK SPLAT

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    Sirusblk's Avatar

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    Re: The Scout - "Eat it fatty!"

    Yah the bat actually is kinda funky in the way you swing it. I'm not sure all melee weapons are the same like this but if you swing forward you'll hit people to the right of you.

    The bat is extremely effective when you've closed the distance. While the scatter gun can still miss at that range, the bat will not.

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    Zoopy's Avatar

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    Re: The Scout - "Eat it fatty!"

    The bat is much quieter than the scatter gun, by the time you realize you are getting batted it's usually 2-3 bat hits in.

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