soul.free

I was watching the Gamespot tournament video for TF2 (on map Granary) and I was a bit dissapointed that the top 2 teams never used any engineers. Do other tournaments lack engineers also?? are engineers weak in league style play because teams work so well together? im not so sure, please post your thoughts.

for those who havnt watched the Gamespot TF2 tourny, heres the vid link
gamespot.com/tournaments/tf2-nov07/tv.php

Zoopy

Probably just the map. Granary is not a good map for Engineers, especially with low player count matches (I am assuming this match was 8v8 or less).

We at the 7th played in some competitive TF2 for a while, almost all leagues have a strict class restrictions (1 engineer, 1 Medic, 1 Heavy, 1 Demoman, 1 Spy, 2 of everything else).

On fast attack maps (6v6) the class roll out (for both teams) was always:
2 Scouts
2 Soldiers
1 Medic
1 Pyro/Demoman/Heavy (Heavy not so much, more situational).

Mobility is the key aspect of push maps (Well/Granary). You want to get to points fast.

The only times we used/saw engineers were in defense maps (Dustbowl/Gravel Pit) and CTF maps. In these maps there is a natural choke with ample leeway to get the turret set-up. Sometimes when your turret is destroyed it is much better for the engineer to just switch out to a different kit then to try and set up again (more so on Gravel Pit or in situations were you are being pressed hard on defense). Engineers are good for defense because they:

• Watch one side allowing your team to focus on the other
• Draw focus of the enemy team, they will have to avoid enemies and take out the sentry or run a different class line up (i.e: Spy) and lose some offesive abilities

A team that plays off the turrets strengths and shields its weaknesses can really lock down an area.

So in the end it was just the map. Maps where you are on offense you need to stay offensive. Push maps have no defense. Defense on push maps = failure.

Daxx

Engineer's are very powerful defenders against disorganized forces. Organized however just run them over. The only case where you might see an unassailable position with organization is because there are multiple engineers. Since they are limited to 1 in clan play, they are useless in all but the defense oriented maps as Zoopy mentioned.

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TheFeniX

Do you have any idea on why there were class restrictions? Was it a balance issue or did they just not want boring matches?

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MagnaCentipede

They're afraid of the turret train and the invisible spy rush.

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Morganan

I'm surprised they didn't limit soldiers, but you are most certainly correct.

Dustbowl/gravel pit are 3 minute tops attacking with the right class mixtures. (and that's assuming you wait for a second row of ubers)

IanTheRed

they didnt want clans going scout rush and taking the game in 10 seconds. Which is common for Wellnary if the entire team plays along.