MagnaCentipede

I'm going to make a map. Since it is mostly for y'all, this thread is for people to toss out ideas, doodles, whatever, that you think might be fun. I do have a basic idea of the map I would like to make, but I'm certainly taking suggestions. What I'm looking for:

• Visual Theme: TF2 has a strong agri-industrial midwest US visual theme. Do we want to keep with that, or would you like to see something different? My current plan is to make it an evening/night map.
• Good and Bad arenas. What are your favorite places and most hated places to fight in? I know I hate 2Fort's choked bases and think that Well has some great interiors that's only harmed by the fact the upstairs area isn't accessible enough. What do you like and not like? I'd like to make the map filled with good fighting for all classes and avoid dumb things such as places that are too turret-friendly, or not turret-friendly enough.

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Zephyr

I would like a version of 2fort that has the bridge being twice to three times longer and has two additional, maybe incomplete, bridges along side the main one. Underneath there would be islands and land bridges, with two tunnels instead of one going into each base. There would also be a sewer pipeline in the back sewer crevice area that would lead to the intel room ceiling that a spy could fall into or a demoman could use to annihilate even the most sturdy defenses.

The drop down point into the middle area would be replaced with a connection to the middle part of the battlements, encouraging players to exit through the battlements and be indirectly placed to not immediately hit enemies charging across the sheltered bridge. The drop down point would be relocated to above the sewer staircase room for an additional choice of exit strategy. The spiraling staircase from the intel room would be relocated to exit at this four-way link and would not expose the retreating team to the conventional turret or spawning players present in the main upstairs room, and also offer two avenues of retreat).

Though I know you're not recreating 2fort, I think the expansion of a middle area in a CTF map, so that it has to be fought for and controlled, prevents engineers from sitting on their intel and spies from being able to just stealth their way through the central area. Likewise the sewer entrance to intel provides an easy way to disable defenses, but not an easy way to extract without navigating the base.

-Zephyr

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Strag

Magna, I'd thought about making a map as well, but lack of time has kept me away from it. I was going to try "underwater base" theme, which could probably be worked into the whole TF2 RED/BLU scheme fairly easily (underwater union workers get into a scuffle.....it's a cartoon, after all ).

You could have a lot of windows looking out into water areas if you handled the map construction right to keep framerates high, which could also provide an opportunity for some very cool lighting effects. Passageways could connect from a central area (submarine docking/cargo area?) to a base (living quarters/exercise areas?) on opposite sides (or perhaps even an L-shaped structure overall shape, with the center area being at the vertex of the L) of the central area.

I would think within TF2's theme it would be possible to have a lot of fun with this sort of theme.

MagnaCentipede

A friend of mine was planning out a CSS map that was with the underwater-base theme, but he never got around to learning his Hammer.

I've been playing with my design idea; frankly it's starting to look a little like 2Fort and a little like Well, which isn't a suprise since they are both good examples of a basic CTF and Control map respectively.

Likely what I'll do is build it like legos; just start with a point and build around it. Generally you don't get the best consistency or quality that way, but you can rarely make a bad map that way, and it should be the easiest way to reach a playtestable demo.

Also, I'm considering making the one map availiable in both CTF and Control Point, if what I come up with would support the respective penultimate points.

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Strag

That sounds like a plan, Magna.

Another idea to toss in your bag -- it might be fun to have a single CP in the middle area of a CTF map that, if owned by a team, would open a very direct route into the other team's base. It might add an extra element of fun and strategery beyond the typical CTF.

MagnaCentipede

I suspect that the game won't be coded to combine rules-sets like that, but I do have a plan for making the map's routes dynamic.

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MagnaCentipede

I'm currently looking at a three-tiered design. A low route, probably basement-sewer style; a mid route, standard building combat like 2Fort; and a high route, which will likely be fun for scouts and snipers and the occasional blastjumping soldier/demo.

One key point is that I'm going to try to make most of the paths overlayed through the Z-axis. The reason for that is to ensure that the player who gets the case has a chance to get out. One problem with 2Fort is you only have two roads out, and they both go to the same turret gun anyway. The design I'm looking towards will require defenders to communicate to know which way the case is leaving and how to catch it.

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TheFeniX

If the top way is only really accessable by soldier, scouts, and demos: you may want to look into health-pickups that help reduce the advantage scouts will have up there. With direct fire weapons and no loss of health to scale that height, they would need either pickups they can't get, or a time detriment (they have to jump numerous times to get up there or to get to the health).

Just don't get caught up in reference to your favorite class(es). The maker of Stronghold was a big fan of the demoman and early revisions of the map reflected that in spades. Pretty much every room in the map had areas where demomen would excel. Make sure to balance for all classes and I'd be more than happy to host the map for testing.

Also, remake "The Hunted." Thanks.....

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MagnaCentipede

All levels will be accessable to all players, however, Scout, Solider, and Demo are the most upwardly-mobile classes by nature, so they will naturally be more able to reach the higher areas. Scout's most effective use of the high area is to move the token simply because the lower population means he's less apt to run into trouble, not as a stand around and waste ammo position.

I only have one favorite class, and it's easy to work with, just make wide hallways and wrap the whole map in a kill zone that filters on pyro.

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TheFeniX

For the record, I found this today. It seems you need to capture a command point in order to gain access to the enemy intel. Could be an interesting concept.

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MagnaCentipede

Interesting that you can indeed mix the gametype rules; but the side effect is that people who haven't played the map get confused, form a negative impression, and leave, because the map doesn't play by the standard rules. Game modes are taken for granted like that.

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RandomGuy

What about different flag mechanics like flagrun or epicenter had?

Strag

I'm not sure what "rules-sets" are from a Source standpoint, but in looking at the TF2 entities it certainly looks possible to do. The proper Output(s) for a trigger_capture_area should be able to be linked to the proper Input(s) for a func_door, so that when RED captures the point, the blue-side door is forced open, and vice-versa for when BLU captures the point. In this case the CP wouldn't be used for scoring in any way, but rather as a means to open an easy/direct route to a team's intel. I'll check this out more when I get a chance.

Regarding standard rules, my suggestion is to not be afraid to twist them a little bit. Having a new take on the old stand-bys would be great, and it might help to attract folks who are looking for something fresh. Nothing crazy or really off-the-wall, mind you, but a spin on the established game mechanics. "Kick it up a notch," as Emeril might say.

MagnaCentipede

I'll be happy enough to get the map working properly without getting hacky with anything. It is the first time I've worked on TF2 after all.

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MagnaCentipede

Didn't do a whole lot to it today; went out and maybe got a job with my time instead. Working on lighting a bit. I hate working with lighting. It never does what I want it to do.

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