Fish #641

Every map, it seems, gets its own thread in which someone dislikes the map. Some people agree or disagree, but generally the map stays on. Playing lately, me and Johnnyboy found that we started to dislike maps that we normally love, such as Gravel Pit or Mach4. We reached the conclusion that the maps simply last too long. Each map gets played far too many rounds at a time, and it wears us out. I would much rather go through the map rotation 3 times rather than play 3 times the rounds on 2fort at a time. I'm not sure what the number of rounds should be, but am I the only one that thinks it should be lowered?

TheFeniX

The win_limit is a hard thing to lay-out right. 9 caps on dustbowl is nothing some days. But gravelpit may take forever.

I'll layout what we've got right now:

CTF: 3 caps to win, 3 win limit (9 total caps).
dustbowl: 9 caps, 45 minute limit
gravelpit, castle: 9 caps
cp_well: 9 wins.

There's never any real complaints, so I haven't looked into tweaking it more. Kick some ideas around.

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Fish #641

I don't have a problem on Dustbowl, but Gravel Pit and Well take a really long time. What's Castle at? I remember a few long days on that map.

Ponicus

Fish, not a bad idea. A few things maybe could be done to fight the map fatigue that I think I may be experiencing as well, with Castle as an example for me.

What about a flat time cap on maps? Like if games go extra long no more than a set 20 to 30 minutes on one map at a time? Upside is it would prevent one map taking forever and minimizing map fatigue. Downside here is it would cut off what could be a very good matchup.

Regarding adjusting the cap/score win limits, keeping them high prevents quick sweeps on maps as pointed out, but on the down side, the map can take a very long time to cycle. Better for a map to cycle quicker (because of one team playing better than the other) than longer I would think?

TheFeniX

There's usually an admin on. Have you considered asking for a map vote?

I could consider moving Gravelpit down to 3-6 caps. This would alleviate the problem of "shut-outs" while giving the opposing team time to even the score.

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MagnaCentipede

What we need is a scoring tweak. If RED defends successfully, they should get the points for the zones they hold. If RED dominates BLU, RED should get 3, not 0. Same on push maps like Dustbowl -- here you are at Dustbowl III, with a 25 minute clock, fighting over two points. Whoopdyfail. Now, if it were worth four, two for us and not-two for them, maybe it would be worth some effort.


Really, I don't like the multi-round points maps at all. CTF has a winner for a round. Long CP maps don't. You're just fragging around and eventually someone loses then you switch, and later on the map changes.

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Ponicus

LOL That's true Fenix. I hope you find all this banter at least semi constructive and not annoying haha

To think of it, as an SM I think I can change the map to anything else at will. (maybe)

Ponicus

So in those maps defense being successful doesn't get any points? you're only denying the attacking team? yeah, with that in mind what you say makes sense and would make each match worth more.

MagnaCentipede

Exactly. That's why Dustbowl can run forever. Both teams can run all six points, which can take fourty minutes or more on each side, and then the original BLU team needs three caps to win, and if they are stopped on two, RED does the same.

Note also the terrible advantage BLU has here. They have a six-point potential first-mover advantage. Playing to nine, initial-RED must both attack and defend successfully to win, while initial-BLU needs only attack since they can literally give up the six points to RED and then win it on Zone II Act I.

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TheFeniX

I play on a 24/7 Dustbowl server that's set to one win per map (which I think is default on TFC dustbowl). Attackers either cap all three caps, or Red holds the base.

Maybe on attacker/defender maps we need to set it so if one team wins (Blu cap everything or red defends) the map changes. That way, you pick: Offense or Defense and that's it for the map.

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Doktor Goku

I honestly did not realize you could fine-tune the scoring like this. Personally, I've never minded spending a long time on a map- but then again, I don't play nearly as much as I could, thus I probably haven't run into the same problem that Fish and some others have.

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Doc-in-training

Ponicus

That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. Or either at least if defense holds up quick, it swaps teams and plays through that way once and then cycles.

TheFeniX

It's a double edge sword.

On one hand we can have what's essentially fast games that have no chance of dragging out (mp_roundlimit 1).

On the other hand, with a hard set winlimit, we have the ability for those hard-fought maps, but without the possibility of numerous steam-rolls. But, if defenders are on the ball, attackers are in for a long game.

When it really comes to a head is when attackers are on a roll, then the defenders get their act together and counter on the last points. 20 minutes across 6 caps isn't that long. That's three minutes a cap. But getting 5 caps in 5 minutes, then being stuck for 15 on the last cap is frustrating.

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neoviper

Most maps are fine to play for a while on for me, except for 2fort. that one never seems to have anything aside from every player running into the middle, dying, and running back. over and over. gets a bit tiring, especially when there are about 4 sentry guns guarding flag.

The other maps though are very fun to play, but a round reduce would probably be nice, something like 5 or 6 for gravel pit is what i would go for. 9 wins for well, and I'm assuming granary, is a bit much, probably want to reduce it to around 4. this is just my opinion, obviously would have to be a unanimous decision to get it changed.

MagnaCentipede

We don't play Well or Granary because people whine about them. I don't recall nine wins anywhere, either -- nine points to match on Dustbowl it once was...

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