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07-13-2008, 11:26 PM #1
Tactics: The Heavy
Following on the success of the Tactics: The Pyro thread and considering the upcoming update to the Heavy I post thread to begin strategic conversation on the new updates as well as heavy strategy in general.
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07-14-2008, 11:55 PM #2
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
I wont start talking about the stragegic objectives of a heavy as Valve himself described them at www.teamfortress.com as well as they have been discussed to death.
Ill start with the proper Uber Heavy execution. Please feel free to add or correct.
First point to a good ubered heavy attack is proper intelligence. Ask your teammates what the status of the field is. You dont know how many times i've plowed forward with an uber only to be pinned by 3 sentrys (an uber nightmare). Ask where the sentries are and whether there is a sniper in the area. With the inteligence in place one must decide what are his strategic objectives as well as how one will go about them.
The first thing I like to evaluate is what are the immediate threats to my medic and I. Is there a sniper (is he good or bad). Can we counter snipe him before I get out there? Is there an area or doorway blanketed by stickies? Basically, is the threat an immediate kill threat or a damage threat. The damage threat allows the medic to gage when to fire, looking at the life gage of his heavy and evaluating the threat to himself. Once these questions are answered we can decide how soon to fire the uber. Remember, the later and deeper the penetration, the more effective the uber is and the longer invincibility time you will have out on the field, but dont get greedy. Go out too deep and you could get yourself or your medic killed before he can get the uber off.
I really dont like to fire off ubers right off the bat cause it gives very little effective damage time. Remember, the heavy had to move slowly into position and then spin up, leaving little actual punishment time. If I feel that there is a threat like stickies in a doorway I usually ask a soldier to spread them or now a days a pyro can send them away with his gas gun. Kamikazee scouts can also jump through right before me and this way I can move through without blowing the uber (thanks guys). Snipers always should be shot down first.
Before one does go in with an uber, alert your teammates that you are going in with uber NOW. This tells them to hang out on the fringe, or move forward if possible and take pot shots at fleeing enemy or help out with the sentries and after uber mop up. This is very important as an ubered heavy cant win alone and a coordinated push is worth 50 uncoordinated ones.
Ok, so, we have a path forward and we have decided our sentry objective and how to get there. The most important point to get in close to where the damage output is more than the repair output of the engy is to get the medic to lead. ALWAYS lead your heavy guys. It always helps the heavy to move forward while spinning. Other wise he is pinned. Cant stress this point enough.
Ok, so now you have the fog of war working on you as a heavy, the sentrys are just about to go down, you are being swarmed with enemies and you uber time is clocking down. How much awareness does the heavy have of the battlefield at this time? NONE! He's been focus firing on the sentry the whole time. Medics, what have you been doing this whole time? If your answer is surveying the field and telling your heavy exactly what threats are clear and present then you are a crack medic. Very few medics help with this. Whos the spy? These guys usually kill me as soon as it wears off cause they just stand behind me, dressed as one of mine and I never consider them a risk over the red soldier thats pushing rockets at me. How many stickies has that winbombing demoman placed below me while I make short work of his friends sentry? If you tell me I have 3 I will definitely find softer ground to stand on before it wears off. Does a sniper have his red dot firmly placed on my head awaiting the time he can make short work of it? All this information allows us to decide how to react once the strategic objective has been reached.
Finally, the mop up. You may have 2 or 3 seconds left if your lucky to take out your most important threats. This is what I focus on. Snipers if their close, demomen, spys then the rest. Or, maybe its time to sneak back around a corner and hold them back while your teammates move in and back you up. These are the situational awareness factors that make a good heavy.
But what if it fails? Maybe you need to get 2 ubers at once. As the main protagonist in the failed uber, you better than anyone else should know what failed and ask to make adjustments for the next. Too many sentries, 2 ubered demos are the solution, not enough supporting teammate, wait for them to spawn and then move forward with the whole crew. Strategize folks. Ubers are not always best spent on heavies. Heavies, recognize if your not the best strategic solution for an uber and give it up.
Thats my take on ubers anyway.
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07-29-2008, 01:26 AM #3
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
No Heavy love in this community:
Man, the pyro got 5 pages of posts on strategy and the poor misunderstood heavy gets no love. I guess we really are the one dimensional, simpleminded noob class everyone talks about. Alas, to be so misunderstood. I guess Ill have to start exploiting that extra 50hp BB and getting everyones goose. Or maybe someone out there in cyberspace would like to make a comment or two on this lovable looser called Heavy Weapons guy. . . cough . . . chirp. . . .sigh . . . silence
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07-29-2008, 02:29 AM #4
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
Here is some brain fodder. a video of Special Limpics and I trying to hold on to the first CP on gold rush. It was sliced short by a spy in the end but we did a lot of things right for quite some time. Actually, we where told there was a spy in the area and after I killed the spy I thought we where safe for a bit. Thats when i felt a blade from a second spy. They got smart and realized they had to break up the heavy medic combo to crack that first point. Truth be told, Special was perfect that round, not one mistake. I on the other hand I madw a couple. Who can point them out and what should I have done differently. After this one Ill post the second half where I did not go down for the rest of the time and I got back at those pesky spies.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5FRwQr1da0[/media]
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07-29-2008, 06:25 PM #5
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
Only two things I noticed:
I would've backed up as soon as your first uber wore off, if not while it was flickering, as there were two soldiers attacking you and you didn't have a great amount of health.
At around the 2 minute mark, I wouldn't have stayed in that little corner. All that happened was a Pyro hurt you a little bit, but if he was uber or got some crits (or a demo just threw a couple over the ledge), you could've been a goner.
Not that I could pull off being a heavy in game, but it's easier to point out mistakes when you're looking at it third person (thanks for the thirdperson by the way).
Oh yeah, in before "YouTube sucks"
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07-29-2008, 11:36 PM #6
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
I know. I lost all resolution when I uploaded the vid. Where should I upload it to get a better quality vid?
About the mistakes you are correct. I got smoked by a crit rocket for not falling back. The truth is that special decided to share the uber and I took some hits in the mean time. By the time I was spinning down to fall back the crit rocket finished me off.
That little corner is awesome if your medic is telling you whats coming from above cause you are expecting them.
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07-29-2008, 11:38 PM #7
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
I don't play heavy anymore, mostly because I join the TG server and friends, which already have several skilled heavies.
The only thing I can contribute to this topic is "watch your head".
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07-30-2008, 12:34 AM #8
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
Yeah the vid is good stuff.

Rocks is one of the heavies you can really rely on. If a heavy uber goes into enemy lines, there is really little time to take out needed targets (like sentires or other medics), so heavies really have to not get sidetracked.Also Special 'Lympics '83 in TF2
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07-30-2008, 02:15 AM #9
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
You were in a good area. You were safe from snipers and random spam gunfire.
To deal with spies, when you're not focusing on any enemies get in the habit of swinging around and looking behind you and doing a quick look at suspicious enemies hiding in corners and looking straight at your back.
Additionally you can ask your medic to be your rear view mirror. If someone reports a spy in the area, or there are multiple spies, check behind yourself more frequently. Doing these things have really helped me since spies are also a snipers counter too. There will be the odd time where you're focusing on someone else and the spy gets you. Nothing you can really do about it except get your medic to watch your back.
Before your uber ends, its probably a good idea to check around you quickly. Spies also like to wait behind an uber group and catch them once their uber ends. Personally as sniper, when I see an ubergroup and im a reasonable distance away, I'll charge up a shot to take you down as soon as your uber goes down, so it's probably better to fallback if you see a sniper doing this.
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07-30-2008, 03:32 PM #10
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
All valid points. When I have a good medic like Special I do less spy checking cause I know that he is on that. I also spoke about spys hanging out around you during ubers in my first disertation on a proper ubered heavy push. I found that 30% of the times I fell was to these guys cause of the reasons mentioned in the above article. If you guys see, the spy that finally did take us down, took out the medic and heavy in a fraction of a second. Many times I hear the death cry of my medic and have a chance to turn on the spy but this time it was lightning quick.
As far as the sniper dot is concerned I also spoke about this above as its another reason for a quick post uber death so if you see yoshi in the distance find a safe spot before it wears off. If you cant find this safe spot start ducking and moving as randomly as you can as it can save you. Rember if the sniper misses his first shot and you are buffed he will need a fully charged head shot to take you out so you just bought yourself some more time. This is correct isnt it Yoshi?
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07-30-2008, 05:11 PM #11
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
Special is probably the best medic I have ever seen. He claims that he checks every 10 seconds if there's no imminent danger, every 30 if theres like a sniper in the back or something (which is reasonable, personally as a sniper I make it a habit to kill medics). It wouldn't hurt to get into the habit of doing it yourself as well.
I've seen heavies ducking when they know they're about to be shot. Unfortunately you do not have an accurate gauge of how far my sniper is powered up. It might work, but its mostly luck. I've seen a heavy constantly ducking up and down because he knew I was there, but I got him anyway. It depends whom you're up against. You can take your chances, but its a long walk from spawn, so you'll have to make the choice tactically if its worth the risk.
In my opinion, if you're backed up by a bunch of your teammates, take the risk. If its just you and a medic, fallback, since your medic will probably die with you when you die.
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07-30-2008, 07:46 PM #12
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07-30-2008, 09:11 PM #13
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
I havent seen you dressed in Medics clothing in months dude! I think you've taken more of a liking to winbombs.
Adressing Yoshi. Yes, your right, its luck and you should probably fall back, but if your on a CP or anywhere where you have no clear area to fall back its better to duck up and down like an idiot than not if you know that the sniper is about to clock you. It just ups your odds a little.
In response to me trying to kill medics first (as a heavy), Its a tough call to do this when you have a baddie that will drop you fast. If Im doing distance shooting i am always trying to aim at the medics but if an assault class with medic comes around close I usually take out the assault class first cause then I can drop the medic quickly after that (since they are usually linked and close to each other). If you see, when there was no threat from an assault class cause I was ubered in the video I hunted down the two medics even though there was a soldier and a heavy in my vicinity, you can even hear Special say in the background "take out the medics."
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07-30-2008, 09:15 PM #14
Re: Tactics: The Heavy
I don't play demoman all that much. I've taken a liking to Soldier and Scout, where I can be more of an asset to my team in a lot of situations than Medic. If there's a good partner on, I'll grab my cloak, but the team does better with me as a soldier with a pub medic than with me as a medic with a pub soldier.
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07-31-2008, 06:00 PM #15
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