I may be making an unpopular arguement here and let me say before anything that I realize that we have in house squads that like to play together.
Hell, from a competitive standpoint it's essential. So I have no issue with TG members trying to be on the same side as their Squad mates.
However, where is the line? For the past two days, I've seen people waiting in spectate mode until a spot opens up on the "TG" side of the team. Or people team changing mid round to get on the side they want. Is this our style now?
I mean, on a BF server that supports 52 players, no big deal. Outside of sometimes unbalancing teams, the size of the server can overcome a stacked squad or two. But in TF2 where the sides are 12v12 or smaller, doesn't it become an issue?
And how about our core value of exposing other people to the TG style of play? Can we do that with 10 TG'ers on one side? Or do we actually chase people off the server because we're always trying to stack one team in the interest of playing with our Squad or just fellow TG'ers in general?
It's different when a group of us go pubbing because then we're doing it for a specific reason.....but to do it on our own server up to the point of not joining an active game until we can pick our side? Hell, I don't know....
What's funny is that stacking the sides hasn't really had the effect I thought it would. The split is pretty even on what team wins even with a majority of TG'er being on one team. However I can't see that effect last as we become more and more familier with the game and the various modes. When that tipping point is hit, if we keep doing things in this way, I can't see how it would be possible to foster any good will outside of the one or two pubbies that happen to be on the TG side.
Hell, I'm just as guilty of wanting to be on the team with my friends as anyone....so I'm torn here. In a big way if I'm being honest. I'm not in an in house squad, but I have people I enjoy playing with just as much so I honestly understand the logic and the reasoning. And it's compelling stuff.
So I hope you understand that I'm not trying to call anyone/squad out or piss anyone off. However is it concerning to anyone else that this type of thing is happening? A lot?
And on a small size, open server does it do us justice to put almost every TG player on one side regardless of the reasoning behind it? I mean seriously, if you're going to sit in spectate mode for half a game just to wait for a slot on a specific side, are you really do things the TG way?
What comes first, our individual squads or the team as a whole?
Not sure I know....and I'm not sure if I have the right answer, because I can see both sides of the debate. All I know that I've played a lot on our server the past 2 days and have some amazing times with a large group of TG'ers.
Just keep an eye on it and think about how many times you see Team One with 7-9 TG players and Team Two with 1-2.
Is it an issue? Do we make the server TG only? Or should I just not worry about it and go back to playing? I guess what bothers me the most are that slots are being taken by people that aren't playing...until they get what side they want. And to me, that's just wrong no matter how you try and justify it.
Trust me, if that is the majority opinion on this, I'm not going to say anything more.
Like I said, I'm not trying to make any enemies here or call anyone out. Just wanted to know if anyone else thought this might be an issue. And if so, should it be something we try and deal with now or let it work itself out over time?
While I understand your point, I myself have gotten to the point with gaming that it is really only fun when I'm playing and BSing with 7th members. While I'm not going to sit there and wait, taking up a spot while the game is going, I will typically switch over to play with the 7th if I see a spot open. I also haven't seen a TF2 night yet where any team has dominated the game because they were stacked with in house squad members. Because of the 24 player count, I think the server is pretty much going to be filled with all TG at some point no matter what. If you want non-TG people to be in the server and experience the "TG way" the option is to have a second server going (like was mentioned in another thread).
While everybody in an in-house squad may not have the same reasoning as me or agree with me, the bottom line is I pay to be a supporting member of TG at this point so I can continue to be a part of the 7th and play with the 7th. I think both sides of the coin are valid arguments and you'll never please everybody. Sure if one team has 8 people that are from an in-house squad and it is obvious the team is winning because of this, then request that they split between two teams. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that.
Shakey, I know exactly what you mean and at times I feel exactly the same way.
I guess when I get down to brass tacks, it's not so much having a majority of TG'ers on one side that bothered me, it was watching people sit in spectate mode or team change mid game just to be on a specific side.
I just find that wrong. Play the game out and switch at a map change. Don't leave one team at a player disadvantage just because you'd rather be on the other side.
Honestly, I think I'm just going to 86 this thread because I don't want it to be seen as a Squad/Squad Not type of deal. Because I don't think it's an issue of the 7th, 12th, Irr, or anything else. For me, all I was seeing was TG'ers stacking sides, and not any one squad doing more or less of it.
So nothing more to see here....and how do I delete a thread anyway?
No issues of gameplay balance here - the game is pretty good.
As far as helping to foster the community, I think that is more important than worrying about balance. As others on these forums have commented, you should be proud to wear the TG tag and help show other players why we play here. Take command, give orders or advice or just try and foster communication and we will quickly gain regulars and add to the TG community.
Its fun to banter with the people you are familiar with but it is even more fun to make new friends.
I personally think it is better when both teams have around 2 TG people taking the lead on attacks and defense, and it is one of the reasons I have created squad 5 - to make the games more dynamic. In games like BF2 and Natural Selection, there are very defined leader roles but in TF2 you need to really work to establish a leader position. In the mean time, don't worry about other people who are tagged waiting to join the team they want - just do what you think is right / more fun for all.
Gaming with a friend or two is ok, but the last thing I want to see is 5 TG members on one team, leaving nothing but public players on the other. Try and split up the teams evenly, because as the game progresses and we all get better, the skill disparity will show through. I've seen this in multiple games here at TG.
I usually pick the side with less players. If it is even, I like to choose the side opposite the one that has the most TG'ers in it. Although I am in no way shape or form a decent shot, I usually feel like spreading the TG love. And if neither of those work out...as displayed by this evenings rounds, I pick the side opposite Pablo so he can pad his stats by knifing me in the back...
"Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results." Gen. George Patton
And if neither of those work out...as displayed by this evenings rounds, I pick the side opposite Pablo so he can pad his stats by knifing me in the back...
Good grief, you can add me to the Pablo stat padding team as well.
Bastage killed me so many times I got excited when a sentry gun killed him AFTER he knifed me yet again.
And I appreicate the comments everyone and for taking the thought process as it was intended. Just to be clear, I don't think it's something we really regulate. We all want to play with our friends...and I really can't find fault with that. My only suggestion is if you can't when you log in then play the other side till the map changes. Just try and keep things as even as possible.
(though I'll probably be the TG leper now and always find myself on the "other" team.)
I've seen nothing even close to team stacking yet. The only team imbalance happens when you have a half-dozen engineers and #7 doesn't know how to hit tab before he chooses his class.
I try to get on a team with my squad mates and that isn't going to change. If that becomes "stacking" one day, then we can address it. Things are going to be very different in 2 weeks when everyone knows how to play. Even moreso when we start making room for supporting members.
I've seen nothing even close to team stacking yet.
Which is why I'm working to nip the problem in the bud as fast as possible. Right now, we have the "benefit" of TG players not being THAT knowledgeable about the game. As time progresses, that will change (TRUST me). So, if the issue is worked out early, it may NEVER become a problem. And that's a good thing.
I try to get on a team with my squad mates and that isn't going to change.
And that's fine. Hell, when I get the inkling to play NS, I try and get on the same team as Wyz, Poker, or Kormendi. But I also understand that if that's not possible, I will take the team I have and do everything I can to help them succeed.