Talk:Tactical Mod for BF2
From Tactical Wiki
[edit] Re: Remove hit indicator
"Since 0.7 Soldier head and torso impacts can now be identified by blood sprays."
Blood sprays/smoke puffs do not serve the same function as hit inidicators. They are a client-side effect, and do not sync up with actual hits. Using knife fights as an example, I've been in several fights where I saw smoke/blood puffs and got no kill with a one-hit weapon. An option to enable/disable hit indicators would be appreciated, assuming that it is done via means other than changing the server-side variable. --Dst 16:40, 5 Mar 2006 (EST)
[edit] Jump & Stamina
Asch (10/22 4:30p EDT): Is it possible to restrict a player from jumping if they have less than X% stamina left? For example, if a player has less than 33% of their overall stamina left, they are now allowed to jump?
[edit] Ticket Bleed
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): During our initial test a ticket bleed map (Mashtuur) ended with both teams around 275-300 tickets. There were around 50 players on a 64 player map. It appears that slowing down the game has reduced the number of tickets lost due to kills. The server was (I think) set at 250% tickets. This should probably be reduced back to 100% and evaluated from there forward.
[edit] Snipers
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): There were definitely more snipers playing this time around. That's a good thing and a bad thing. We don't want the mod to end up being a snipefest, however the usefulness of the sniper was more apparent both for spotting/recon and having an effect on taking out players. This also had the side affect of increasing the number of medics.
[edit] Armored Vehicles
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): The 1.03 patch introduced the capability to easily destroy mines as opposed to disarming them. This made the mines pretty much ineffective and made defending against tanks very difficult. I'm sure part of this is getting used to the new playstyle, but the fact that a tank can roll in quickly and take out a few defending infantry fast in conjunction with the instant neutralized flag and long respawn times... defending a flag is increasingly difficult.
Even when a squad had a solid defensive position setup, a tank could simply roll in and eliminate several players before the AT roles had a chance to destroy it.
Duke (10/18 11:39a EDT): I will see if I can revert the characteristics of mines so that they are not set off by explosions.
Duke (10/27 6:33p EDT): Yep, we can, and I did. :-)
[edit] Neutralize Flag Time
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): Instantly neutralizing a flag in conjunction with the increased player spawn time might be overkill. Players would run/drive up to the flag quickly to neutralize it, then pull back and continue clearing the area. We may want to look at putting some amount of neutralize time back on the clock. Maybe half of what the original values were... or set all flags to 10 (for example) seconds.
Duke (10/18 6:56p EDT): It's possible that in a client-side mod we could make it so players wouldn't be able to spawn at an outpost only when the enemy are actually on the flag, like we originally wanted to. The "instant neutralize" change was added only because that was the only way I could figure out how to achieve a similar result on the server-side only.
[edit] Player Spawn Time
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): The original change will definitely require more time to evaluate, but some possible options might be to reduce the increase to one or two second increments and possibly start it at twenty seconds instead of thirty. Again, just possible adjustments.
[edit] Revive Time (Critically Wounded Time)
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): I'm not sure if the thirty second critically wounded time led to more medics or the fact that players wanted to heal themselves... so I'm not sure if this would need to be adjusted.
[edit] Commander
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): The CO chair was extremely difficult and for the most part extremely agonizing. The CO has to spend extra time zoomed all of the way in so that they can provide intel to their squads. This was very time consuming and I don't know if it was effective. The CO could only slightly organize his squads and even then, you mostly had to tell them to defend because you had to concentrate on helping one squad out at one CP.
[edit] Aircraft Reload Time
Asch (10/18 9:25a EDT): One of the few players that was capable to access the Dalian Plant map and test out the aircraft found that it took too long to reload the vehicle. He was estimating that you sat 20 seconds for one/two bombs. This might be too long. With the increased aircraft spawn time, increased damage of AA missiles and having to land to reload, the reload time should probably be reduced.
A different change that may help would be to reduce the bombs / missiles that the aircraft carried so that they must land & reload more frequently. This still requires them to land & reload more often, but gets them back in the action faster. The end result is still the same amount of time on the ground, but the feel of sitting on the ground too much is lessened.
Duke (10/27 6:39p EDT): Reload time has been slightly decreased. I'm still thinking about the idea of decreasing the number of bombs to one. I want to get a good feel for how the current changes have affected aircraft deadliness before making this decision.
[edit] Re: Remove commander assets
Asch: I'd be careful on removing assets. It's already difficult to get players to step up into the CO chair. If they don't have assets to play with, then we'll have even less stepping up. Were we unable to change the rate at which the assets reload?
Duke: I don't know that we would have less commanders. It's certainly possible but I don't think we'll really know until we try it. In various threads on TG regarding removing assets or slowing down their reload time there have actually been people who have said that they would be more likely to command if doling out the assets was a less significant part of the job and they had more time to strategize and work closely with the squad leaders. My goal is to make the commander a more integral part of squad missions. Because there will be no Scan & Spot or UAV for the squads it will be very valuable for a commander to follow a squad along its mission using the satellite video feed, provide local intel, and make tactical decisions.
Regardless of whether this will attract or push away potential commanders I think it is critical that Scan and UAV are removed for the benefit of everyone else in the game. One of the primary goals of this mod is to encourage clever and interesting tactics. When the enemy can see everything that you're doing almost all of the time you are pretty limited in how you can "outsmart" them. You have little or no time to maneuver and execute a coordinated attack because they know you're there and will disrupt your plans. It usually comes down to getting as many people as you can to charge at the enemy firing their biggest guns. This is what I'm trying to get away from.
Another goal of this mod is to reward players for playing smart and carefully. I don't think it is reasonable for players to defend themselves against artillery. And I don't think it is fair to require players to wait an extended amount of time to respawn because they were killed by something that they can't defend against. Therefore I think artillery should also be removed.
Based on my current research I do believe that it would require a client-side mod to change the asset reload time. In general, the only changes that can be made on the server are ones that deal with things that must be synchronized across all players on the server. Since only the commander can see the commander screen it appears that the developers put all of that logic, including how long an asset takes to reload, into the client-side code.
Asch (10/10 2:53p EDT): Since we can't change the recharge time of the assets, I can understand why we would want to eliminate the artillery and UAV, however I think we could reasonably leave the Radar (scan feature) in place. The radar requires a longer recharge time than the other assets and when in use, the "spotted" only lasts for a few seconds where-as the UAV would last a good bit of time. The CO can still "spot" players without the scan so by removing the scan, we're only making it more annoying for the CO.... not easier for the ground troops to avoid detection.
Duke (10/10 11:51p EDT): Scan actually has the shortest reload time, 30 seconds. With the Scan function the CO can see all enemy positioning and movement every 23 seconds or so. Removing Scan would make it easier for ground troops to avoid detection because the enemy CO would only be able to see them and spot them if he pans to their location using the satellite video feed. Even if the CO was constantly panning across the entire map looking for enemy there would be long periods of time where sections of the map would be out of the CO's view and enemy squads would be able to move without detection. When a CO does spot an enemy threat, or is directed to one by a squad leader, his attention there -- spotting the enemy, providing intel to nearby squads, and possibly coordinating other squads to help neutralize the threat -- will allow the enemy to move undetected throughout the rest of the map.
The goal is to reduce intel down to a local level. Think of it kind of like the Fog of War in an RTS game. The "fog" allows you to execute complex and surprising strategies that would otherwise be impossible if the enemy could see your every movement and had the opportunity to disrupt your plans or prepare to defend specifically against them.
[edit] Re: Decrease flag capture radius
Asch: Is this the plan for ALL CPs? This will make it VERY difficult to capture some CPs, especially those with flags in the open. Controlling the outpost isn't quite as easy as it sounds with respawn, however a one minute player respawn time may adjust for this. Another option that I noticed in the map editor was a booleon that disallowed a player to spawn on the CP if an enemy was within it's radius.
Duke: Yes, I was planning on changing this for all CPs. I think you're right that the increased respawn time will significantly reduce the chaos that we currently see at CP battles. I didn't know about the option to stop enemy spawns when you're capping a flag, but I love the idea. I've always hated securing an area only to be killed a moment later by an enemy that spawns out of nowhere, right behind me. I will try to learn more about that option. Let me know if you remember or see the field name again. I think that with the increased respawn time and that new option it will be reasonably possible to take control of an enemy outpost and cap the flag while standing near it.
Asch (10/10 2:53p EDT): I would vary the radius based on the flag. If you're trying to make the FLAG as the point to capture, then the 3m radius makes sense. But if you're trying to make the AREA the point of capture, then 3m does not always make sense.
Duke (10/11 12:38a EDT): There's a couple different reasons that I chose a global 3m flag radius. The first is that I think a squad should have to prove that they control the area before being able to safely capture the flag. If you can't bunch a couple guys near the flag, which is almost always fairly out in the open, without the risk of them taking fire then I don't think you should be able to capture that flag.
The second is I want to prevent the ability to capture a flag while hiding in a building, behind a wall, etc. There are many CPs where this is currently a problem. A specific example is the SW warehouse on Dalian Plant. You can capture that flag while hiding on the second floor of the adjacent warehouse. Walking distance from there to the flag is probably a good 200 ft. I think that capturing a flag signifies that your team controls that area of the map, so things like this don't seem right to me.
The third is rather silly and insignificant, but I like the idea that the players are close enough to the flag so it is like they are actually lowering the enemy flag and raising their country's flag themselves. :-)
[edit] Re: Replace bomber jets with fighter jets
Asch: Bombers are meant to inflict an obscene amount of damage so I'm not sure of the reasoning for removing them, especially since we're increasing the aircraft respawn time. I might suggest leaving the bombers in the game, but changing their respawn time to five minutes.
Duke: My reasoning for removing the bomber jets is almost identical to that for removing artillery. I think that they are too powerful and there is no reasonable way to defend against them. I think that the destruction they bring is incompatible with the goals of this mod.
[edit] Re: Don't spawn armored vehicles or aircraft at enemy controlled bases
Asch: I'm not sure I fully understand this one. Are you saying that if a team controls a CP and the beginning of the map round and the enemy captures it, that no vehicles would spawn? If this is the case, a map like Dragon Valley would be very difficult for the USMC since China starts with just about every flag. And there's ten of them.
Duke: Sorry for the confusion. When I say "base", I mean the "base". The CP/UCB with the team's most valuable vehicles and where the commander assets are/would be. Currently this would apply to China's airfield on Dragon Valley, the TV station on Sharqi Peninsula, MEC's airfield on Kubra Dam, the factory on Strike at Karkand, China's airfield on Wake Island, etc. Currently when these bases are taken over the outcome of the round is pretty much decided and the losing team takes a horrible beating for the remainder. This change should give the losing team a much better chance of retaking their base and being competitive in the round again.
[edit] Re: Change ticket bleed requirement
Asch: For -balanced- maps 50% + 1 sounds logical. For maps where one team has a UCB and the other does not, I think the advantage should go to the team without a UCB. For example, if there are 7 CPs total and the USMC has a UCB but China does not, then adjust the points so that the USMC must control five CPs while China must only control four to cause ticket bleed.
Duke: That's a very interesting thought. Currently my logic is that the disadvantage of not having a UCB is balanced by the advantage of starting out with all of the flags and having the opportunity to hold ticket bleed for a significant amount of time -- until the enemy is able to take half of the flags. This assumption might turn out to be completely incorrect or just incorrect for specific maps. Let's see how it works out with 50% + 1 for both teams and keep this idea in mind for possible future implementation.
Duke: I've thought about this a bit more and imagined how it would work while playing a round of Kubra Dam and I think that your approach would be more balanced for assault maps. The defenders have to use so many resources to defend their precious base that they don't have the man power to reasonably hold half of the rest of the map.
[edit] Re: Neutralize flag when enemy starts to capture it
Asch (10/12 9:56p EDT): I was thinking about this earlier today and am wondering if this will make it too difficult to defend a CP. This will really force the SL of the defending squad to hide and stay alive. Once the defending SL dies, the defending squad has no place to spawn while the assaulting SL could easily sit back and let his squaddies continue the assault and provide a respawn. I'm not sure how this will play out but it's something we need to watch.
Duke (10/13 1:08a EDT): The defending squad wouldn't be able to spawn only if the attackers broke through the defense, jumped on the flag (within 3m now), and killed the defenders, including the squad leader, before they were able to take it back. If that happens it makes sense to me that the former defenders wouldn't be able to spawn there anymore because they've lost control of the area. I'll keep an eye on this too and we'll see if it makes defending unreasonably difficult after people have adapted to the change.
[edit] Increase all weapon accuracy
Asch (10/12 10:22p EDT): Apophis asked if it would be possible to increase the weapon accuracy for infantry units?
Duke (10/13 1:15a EDT): Good question. I'll keep an eye out for that possibility next time I'm poking around the weapons files. Might be a good tweak to include in a future version of the mod.
