Tarenth

Actually the mana costs are relatively the same since Dispell is 14% of priest base mana and Arcane Shot is 135 mana for the lowest rank that dispells (rank 6) and 230 for the highest (rank 9). Purge may be cheaper at only 8% of base mana and Mass Dispell is 33% of base mana which is no where near 33% of total mana. It does do damage which is nice, but you can't spam cast it because of the 6 second cooldown (5 with talents). It also only removes one affect whereas Purge and Dispell both remove two and are spamable. Mass dispell also removes only one, but it can hit 5 friendlies and 5 enemies at once for a total of 10 spells (5 buffs and 5 debuffs).

In your hunter vs priest case you could argue more in favor for the priest if you included talents like you did for the hunter. Example: Pain Suppression will reduce all damage by 40% and makes buffs 65% more resistant to dispels on a 2 minute timer. You also have Power Infusion which increases spell damage and healing by 20% on a 3 minute timer. Imp Divine Spirit increases spell damage and healing by 10% of spirit, Silent Resolve makes all spells 20% resistant to arcane shot's purge affect, and stacking the shield talents gives you a 15% stronger shield and 50% damage reflection. Don't forget 15% cheaper mass dispel that becaomes a 0.5 second cast with Focused Power and Absolution. Personally I like Martydom since it gives you a 6 second immunity to interruption when you're a victim of a critical strike and also increases knockback resistance by 20%. If you're going against a BM hunter the pet will probably crit to get flurry and if you stack Martyrdom you'll be immune from pet knockback. If you're a discipline priest you can also get Focused Will to stack with the pet. Permanent -15% damage and +30% healing recieved is a nice way to stay alive.

Will that help you kill the hunter? Well...no. You're playing a priest for goodness sake. They are effective counters though and if you've got a group. Of course if you're playing a shadow priest then its meltface -> collect honor.

I like this build though if you want to melt faces against a BM hunter. http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxxMzZZVMgtMdRhtEo

Shadow to melt faces and Martydom to give you focused casting on crits with silent resolve making your buffs 20% undispelable. Though I suppose you could just throw up Inner Fire to eat the arcane shot purge and spread talents elsewhere. Like Imp Fort and Imp shield or something. Blackout gives you some CC since its a 3 second stun whenever any shadow spell hits. I know shadow priests like to spam cast SW:P rank 1 for 25 mana for both shadow weaving, misery, and blackout procs. Its instant cast too so you can spam it to get the 10% proc rate.

If you want to do support priest you can use http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=bxhMuhgtrcqtfZV0b. Improved mass dispel speed and cost. Blackout and Shadow Focus for the SW:P1 spam stun. Improved healing focus with martyrdom for reduced knockback with healing. If BW is used then turn on Pain Suppression to negate the bonus damage which can then stack with Focused Will for 80% damage reduction (though if you're ignoring the pet that's 15% damage reduction already). Apply the shield for reflective damage and a possible sacrifice for purge. The point of the support role, however, is for arena combat to negate paladin bubbles with its 0.5 cast speed mass dispel and improved survial. You'll probably be aimed shot since you aren't actively trying to kill the hunter and they will have the 3 seconds to wind up (unless they're being attacked at which point they'll suffer knockback as if they were casting a spell). Another alternative would be to mana burn people in order to eat away at mana pools so they can't use those abilities. I remember us having a bit of success using a hidden priest just mana burning when heals weren't needed yet or if we had two healers so that you're doubling the mana cost of the other side's heals by taking away healer mana and forcing them to heal themselves.

Ah so many options and counters when you consider talents. Flared was right, priests must be overpowered.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Chadwiko

Blah blah blah. I read the first few posts of this thread, and then my brain started to hurt.

Seriously, this thread is the equivalent of doing University readings! I'm on holidays dammit!

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Delirium Platoon Leader
Fate Squad Leader
All round fantastic dude

BigSlick

Yep, unless the priest can play LoS a LOT and have the pet down, he's pretty much screwed. Actually pretty much screwed against most DPS, except those wimpy shadow priests (and that one rogue I ended up 1v1 against with half mana while he was at full health - he's probably still looking at his monitor going 'wtf?!')

In BG I've had good success in shadow (well, at least in AV). But in arena... Well, good luck w/ any focused shadow build. Take a look at the distribution of top-ranked teams that include priests http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/5/all/priest/all/all/ - only 14 of the top 100 have any points at all in shadow, and fewer go deep. In arena, SP are the first burn target of any competent (and most incompetent) teams as they're the easiest to kill, every time.

Spamming SW:P rank 1 for SW, misery, and blackout procs might be viable if the other team is foolish enough to target any other player besides the SP. But when you're the FF target you're wasting valuable GCD's that can be spent putting up dots that generate real damage on multiple targets along w/ the other debuffs. I've never survived long enough in an arena match we've lost to actually run OOM, and more often the matches we won when I played shadow were assisted by the damage my full strength dots applied after my demise. /mourn bigslick

Healing/support is the viable role of a priest in arena. But I really like the idea of a 5v5 with a dedicated healer and a disc/holy priest to dispel/mana burn/heal... I'm interested.

With proper offensive support, I'll agree that a geared disc/holy priest is a force to be reckoned with - lots of surviveablilty, great utility.

It does seem that degree of OP'ness varies with size of team. Disc/Holy priests rule when in larger groups...

Top ranked arena teams with Disc/Holy priests:
-- 9 of the top 10 5v5
-- 4 of the top 10 3v3

But the real OP class? Druids.
-- 8 of the top 10 2v2
-- 8 of the top 10 3v3
-- 0 of the top 10 5v5 (ok, big gap here)

Pistos

All classes and/or specs I don't play are OP.

Classes and/or specs I do play need buffz.

Blizzard nerfing abilities that worked just fine in PvE because of people exploiting them in PvP sucks and makes me sad.

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Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.

Flared

I submitted a ticket to get the priest class removed from the game.

Tarenth

*shrugs* I just play with the rules given to me. Its true that some tactics work well in one environment and suffer utter of fail in another. I've said as much several times in this thread, but people just like to point at your strengths and ignore your weaknesses when they complain.

"OMG! Blackout doesn't work well in Arenas, but is somewhat effective in 1v1 and BG play? OVERPOWERED!"

Shadow priests are just one of those classes in Arena settings that you can't safely leave alone. If you ignore a shadow priest then they'll end up healing and restoring mana to the rest of the team. Disc/Holy seems to be the better alternative because you get more survival and use as a healer. Its also the only counter to paladins and their bubbles since you can mass dispel with a 0.5 second cast and make them cry.

Your arguements actually parallel many of my own Bigslick.

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Aestryd

Alright well, I see that there was no discussion about the main reason why I thought hunters were OP, and that's okay. I'll leave the dispelling effects alone, since arcane shot is 3rd in terms of efficiency for me, behind dispel magic and purge, despite being a bit more useful if on a longer CD. Mass dispell is simply not worthwhile unless you're going against a pally.

I also see that you chose to pursue an example, and not the issue I was trying to bring up by going after not the number of counters, but specific talents that increase survivability, which is fine as you stated in your post that if one considered talents (and not counters) that one could argue more in favor of the priest. This is true, but if we're going after talents that increase survivability of the priest, I urge you to also look at the number of talents that increase the damage or survivability of the hunter (or pet, depending on spec) as well. I think you'll find there are an equal number of talents that will affect the DPS or survivability of the hunter as well.

I'm definitely of the opinion that every class is something you just can't leave alone in an arena. As well, while I am focusing on hunters' strengths, please tell me the weaknesses that balance out their strengths. Actually, while we're on the subject can you tell me what the hunters' strengths are? For the purposes of ease and clarity we'll restrict it to arenas or one on one only, no BGs. You can be brief or extensive, but please be equally brief or extensive to both sides. Perhaps I only know a few of the weaknesses of the class (though I'm not sure about that since I have Shiro constantly saying hunters need a buff...I do mean constantly...I swear to god I've seen it tatooed on his skin or something...), so I may be being too harsh, but I do think that the number of advantages that hunters have outweigh their negatives to a much greater (I may possibly mean "more potent") degree than that of most other classes. The reason I say "most other classes" is because I will reserve the right to exclude locks, Arms warriors (or is it fury?), and in some cases rogues.

Awaiting your reply,

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Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 74 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 62 Combat Rogue

beep

I am rock. Love scissors! Nerf paper!

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Beep


Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

Aestryd

Nerf Rocks! They're too hard to take down! Buff paper: they don't have enough survivability!

/spittle flying!

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Aestryd 80 Prot Pally / Epimetheus 70 Feral Druid / Yuusei 74 Enhancement Shaman
Camsmule 70 Fury/Prot Warrior / Tamrissa 70 Affliction Warlock / Aegyn 70 Holy Priest
Shyff 70 Arcane Mage / Indrus 62 Combat Rogue

Quarath

but scissors are very sharp

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"they're more like guidelines, than actual rules,"....Captain Barbossa - Pirates of the Caribbean

BigSlick

There is no spoon.

Tarenth

Spork > Spoon.

I had something written up to post, then I fell asleep at the keyboard when my meds kicked it. Didn't think it would be wise to post something that could be read as 60 pages of random key presses and I don't think the forum would've let me anyhow.

I'll give it another shot later. If you really want answers then dig back in the tactics forums and even in this thread. I point out some weaknesses and counters people commonly overlook in this thread (because no weaknesses means overpowered so obviously we should ignore them) and some of the strengths of hunters else where.

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.