I've kept quiet, but I think I need to speak up, as why I'm in TG relates to this discussion. This is long, for that I apologize.

First off, my background in WoW is primarily Horde side, with a 60 druid w/ 4 pieces of Cenarion set and a variety of high end quest/instance gear. I've got a few alts there, but I never found anything I enjoyed other than my druid until warlock. I opted out of playing 'over there' on the Horde side more to escape guild drama than lack of interest. I've also done 'endgame' content in Everquest, and played City of Heros until the content devolved into grinding to the level cap. I draw on all of these experiences as I write this and hopefully help everyone's WoW experience.


Personally, I enjoy endgame content. I consider it a challenge with rewards of both gear upgrades, but also display of my 'skill' by having the gear to symbolize the accomplishment. I accept that I may have to play for several raids to get even on piece of gear, and that's fine. I feel the time spent is often worth the accomplishment and how the improved gear makes other portions of the game more enjoyable. I can recall the first time I main-tanked a raid using my druid, how can tell how that experience has become more enjoyable as my gear has improved. I have a similar satisfaction every time some inspects my horde druid, as it reflects what I've done.

Not everyone wants to do endgame, and that's their choice. I'm not paying for them to play WoW, so I have no right to dictate how they play the game. That's all kosher. The problem, to me, is that most new content will focus on endgame raids of 20+ members. At some point, you have to decide to run endgame content, or you're out of things to do in WoW. I will note that WoW has probably the widest selection of content, so I wager folks playing alts can avoid playing endgame for most of a year between all the races, classes and zones available in game if you play both alliance/horde.

The problem that arises, however, is where TG is currently. We lack the numbers to attempt most endgame content, and TG can currently complete all pre-ZG/MC instances. Folks that want to explore new content end up running it outside guild, and there's the very real fact that once you start running 'out of guild', you get asked to change guilds. I've faced this and managed to see the content without changing guilds. Barely.

I would like to see TG become capable of endgame, even if not all members choose to participate. I wager folks that hit 60 will 'try' endgame just to see it, then decide whether or not to continue attending. However, if TG has enough members to do endgame, then it's capable. It doesn't require that all members attend, though it's often easier if folks are willing and able to come if asked. Furthermore, with endgame capable members, pre-endgame content becomes easier. My best example was seeing a fully geared MC/BWL warrior 'solo' UBRS - he wanted to get a chest piece for his guildie, so he started an UBRS raid. With that epic gear, he did DPS comparable to several warriors, and could absorb the damage as well.

What if TG 'decides' to not become capable of endgame? First off, I think a lot of folks are going to miss out of current and future content/challenges. Blizzard is biased towards high end content, even though the expansion has new races & areas. Secondly, TG will lose folks who are at 60, as other guilds offer raid slots then formal invites. I've considered TG to be on the road to become endgame capable, but in light of Tasra's comments, I have concerns that enough members are willing to support that goal. I don't blame folks for lack of interest, but it's hard to ask folks looking for endgame to stay if they're unable to do that content in-guild.

I have seen guilds face this situation, and these are the 'options' I've seen:

1. Become capable of endgame, preferably without making it required.
2. Become a family guild focused on members/community.
3. Devolve into an alt guild, where high members eventually are recruited by other guilds.
4. Disband and/or form two guilds (Generally, at least one if not both guilds vanish within two months).

Note that #2 & #3 are often intertwined, with players leaving alts in the family guild yet moving mains/high level characters to 'raiding' guilds. I feel that TG is shifting towards those, but is still in a position to 'choose' an option. I hope that commitment to guild, we can achieve a balance between endgame-capable and community, but it's going to be a challenge few guilds can even attempt.

I think TG can do it. 'nuff said.