View Poll Results: Should Supporting Members Get Special Benefits

**Kossi** · 04-30-2006, 06:26 PM

Wow.... i cant believe how many people support this idea, or really even try to justify it.

Love you all as i might, when are we going to understand that we are here to have fun and play games together.... TG is a great community for those who embrace it - nothing more should come of it - it's not something you want to force on someone. period.

**Acid** · 04-30-2006, 07:38 PM

Now that I understand how a raid works, I do not support benifits.

**Apophis** · 04-30-2006, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kossi

Wow.... i cant believe how many people support this idea, or really even try to justify it.

Love you all as i might, when are we going to understand that we are here to have fun and play games together.... TG is a great community for those who embrace it - nothing more should come of it - it's not something you want to force on someone. period.

I don't believe anyone is "forcing" anything on anyone else. There's always a choice.

**Vinzalf** · 04-30-2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kossi

Wow.... i cant believe how many people support this idea,

It's a method of recognition for all of the things done around here, for the community. It's no different than names you see on plaques or written on bricks of a building or monument.

Originally Posted by Kossi

or really even try to justify it.

I feel that something should be done. It is customary here in TG on almost all of the games to at least show those who support the community as a whole, regardless of the game. That being said, I know it will most likely never be possible within the realm of Azeroth to make this work. That does not change the fact that I wish for it.

**ScratchMonkey** · 05-01-2006, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by Kossi

Wow.... i cant believe how many people support this idea, or really even try to justify it.

Whenever anyone makes a statement in a forum that I violently disagree with, I take a breath and apply Hanlon's Razor. It keeps my blood pressure under control.

(I was definitely one of the ones on the "stupid" side of the razor.

)

**beep** · 05-01-2006, 11:56 AM

I'd like to try to provide some overview to this discussion:
1. Poll Results

23 favored supporting member benefits unconditionally (18 of those were SM's; 5 were not)
17 said "it depends on the benefits" (8 SM's; 9 were not)
7 opposed benefits to supporting members (3 SM's; 4 were not)

2. Overall results from the poll indicate that a majority do favor benefits with a large group "on the fence" who might favor them depending on the specifics.

3. The discussion was "lively" and generated some strong opinions. My surprise came from the number of folks who view the idea of Supporting Memberships as coercive or something that people are forced into. I acknowledge the possibility of those feelings but personally I've never felt that encouraging folks to become supporting members was coercive...at least no more so than joining your local public radio station or natural foods coop. When I contribute by joining these groups, I get patronage dividends, bargain prices (not available to non-members), ticket or meal discounts and various other member benefits. My goal all along in this discussion was to explore what member benefits would be appropriate for TG's supporting members in the context of WoW.

4. While there is no particular disagreement around the availability of non-game benefits for SM's, there is very little agreement about what benefits are appropriate in-game. A couple of benefit ideas floated were priority for raid signups and a DKP "bonus". Neither generated a consensus.

5. What's next? I'd like to see more discussion on this topic. I'd particularly like to hear from non-supporting members as to what benefits could be offered in-game to supporting members that would be fair and not divisive. It may be that some of you feel NO in-game benefits should be available. One potential issue in doing this in a discussion forum is that some may not wish to go "on record" in a forum post with their true thinking.

6. I plan to close this thread in a couple of days since I believe that it has run its course. This is a "heads up" so that no one thinks that we are trying to stifle discussion.

**Altor** · 05-01-2006, 01:54 PM

Beep,

Now that there has been a discussion, maybe people have changed their views. I would still vote no, but I bet the numbers would be different.

**beep** · 05-01-2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by Altor

Beep,

Now that there has been a discussion, maybe people have changed their views. I would still vote no, but I bet the numbers would be different.

I don't think the topic is dead...but may need a short rest before coming at it again...

You may be right about views changing as a result of the discussion. The best we can say NOW is that while there is general support for the idea of SM benefits, there is not a consensus about what that would be...and that the specifics would likely affect the agree/disagree voting.

**Wyzcrak** · 05-01-2006, 02:56 PM

I left the poll alone, as this is a rather complex topic.

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

So, this is a potential perk that will significantly affect gameplay. I don't think it's a good idea in that case.

And with all control of the game being out of TG's hands, I don't know that there are going to be many game-specific perks that can be offered to SM's without affecting gameplay.

I agree strongly with the bold text, and I've been thinking for days how best to explain why, struggling both to identify what I have to say and careful to not blabber on about a point already well made.

"Significantly" is anyone's interpretation, but I say any transaction in "real life" which promotes the status or wealth of a character in a game's play creates division within the social structure of the gameplay's community. We have precedent which limits access to the gameplay based on those transactions, but we have no precedent which limits the gameplay itself, and I would like to see it stay that way.

We're blessed, today, to have more than enough Supporting Members (that is to say -- all of our bills are paid AND we're prepared for the planned -- and arguably unplanned -- near future). No, we can't just stop offering perks in times of SM wealth here. We must protect the carrot. All I ask, if we can manage it, is that we not change or circumvent the gameplay itself to do so.

I'm sure I'm not familiar enough with WoW to manage the details.

**Tonk** · 05-01-2006, 03:15 PM

this thread is officially over my head, i threw my 2c in already

**Vinzalf** · 05-01-2006, 03:43 PM

Wyz you confused Chair here with your big talk.

Needless to say, I cannot think of one single thing that this community could do for the SMs to be fair.

I still strongly support us being creative and perhaps finding things. The results of this, we cannot know, or may not ever know. There are too many variables that TG has no control over.

Do I wish for it to happen? Yes.

Do I believe it will happen? Nope.

**Kossi** · 05-01-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Vinzalf

It's no different than names you see on plaques or written on bricks of a building or monument.

Except this is a GAME and that makes it very very different.

No disrecpect to this community, i was a part of it, and a supporting member - and i enjoyed myself a great deal because i supported. But just because i support something that i want to be a part of doesnt mean i wanted to be treated as "better" than those that dont support.

I know this is a dead thread at this point. But it's sad to come back and see this same issue croping up over and over again. Why does money have to be our main drive here? It creates divisions in the guild between those that have it and dont, and those that have dedication but dont show it by giving money.

And cing and wyz..... great posts and well made points. /cheer

**beep** · 05-01-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Chair

this thread is officially over my head, i threw my 2c in already

That's 'cause you're a dorf. If you were a gnome, it'd be WAY over your head.

**Phantom** · 05-01-2006, 05:09 PM

Hey now Beep dworfs pwn! I just noticed last night that Stoneform gets me out of those nasty bleeds the corehound packs put on you, so i keep myself from taking like 15000 damage once the hounds are dead. Let's see YOU do that :P

**Drizzid** · 05-01-2006, 05:17 PM

But just because i support something that i want to be a part of doesnt mean i wanted to be treated as "better" than those that dont support.

I think this "better" thing has been beat to death. If someone can please show me a supporting member of this community that has said he/she is better than a nonsupporting member I would love to see it. I know I don't play WoW and I realize it is a unique game than the other games here at TG but all I hear from this group when it comes to supporting memberships is that it grants someone this title of being "better" than someone else. I have never seen any supporting members of this community claim this right or title and it seems that the only ones that are giving this title to supporting members are the nonsupporting members. So I think this needs to be curbed in the future.

Why is it about money because everything is about money. WoW wouldn't be here unless there was money to be made. TG wouldn't be here if there wasn't money to keep it afloat. We play games to have fun and forget about real life but even in the virtual world real money drives it. Don't blame TG for having to offer something for people to buy because if there wasn't then we would all be out there in a virtual waiste land wishing there was a place like TG. TG is a product and you have to try and sell that product and that is why these perks exist. Apophis makes no money from TG it is all used to pay the bills and to make our precious gaming time as good as it can be.

To the nonsupporting members please don't feel you are not appreciated because you are but, unfortunately not everything in life is fair even in the virual life. I was here for 3 months before I scraped enough money together to become a SM and I had to fight with my wife to allow me to being a SM

.

I have a family and I know how tough money is to come by and I understand the commitment it takes to play WoW to justify the expense of the game but if it weren't for the SM of this community there wouldn't be TG. I have seen many posts from WoW players that have come here because of the quality of the people SM and NONSM that are here and I believe that to be the truth. You can go somewhere else to play WoW I am sure but, you won't find "better" people than the ones here at TG whether it be in WoW or in BF2 or any other game.

I don't mean to be a know it all or to butt into your world but this whole "better" thing really needs to be stopped because I don't believe it to be the truth. JMHO and I will try and stay out of your guys business from now on