doofeey

You me and the lamp post all know that it will not help the raid in anyway to have that much input on coms DURING a fight. This fight may be easy to others, but to us, its just not... no mater how experienced a few people are at it. Most of us are not and we should seek direction only from a select few and everyone else should hush up FOR THE BENEFIT of the group. Hell, if I can keep my mouth closed on comms, I dont see why everyone else that doesnt have something pertinent to sayduring a fight cant do the same. Ima real chatter box, but I know when to shut the hell up.

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Gambit7

Not sayin it'd slow us down in learning. But it could slow us down in completing a task new to us because of lack of malleability during the 1st few raids. Obviously, if something is new to everyone it's highly unlikely we'll be successful if we dont communicate during the raid. As well, Raids present themselves differently every time - as we've seen lately with Ony. I must say, I think our RLs do a helluva job runnin raids, but it's up to the raiders to fill in the remaining needed on-the-fly info. PROPERLY.

Prepping before and after a Raid is great and all, but it's not ALWAYS enough because of these reasons.

U almost need to look at it in a PvP point of view... where if u dont talk u die. Ocassionally PvE content becomes so fluid this is necessary. Otherwise, we can just try over and over again till we get it right.

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Pistos

I think I understand a little better what you were getting at now. I'm not a RL, but it does seem like there could be benefit to concise, simple, calm communication during a fight as long as it didn't get in the RL's way. What I'm afraid it will morph into is 10 people talking over each other. Since I've never really played any organized FPS how is that handled there? How do you keep the communication clean and helpful instead of crazy yelling "OMG HEAL ME" or "WE'RE GETTING RAPED BY A BAZILLION DRAGONKIN OVER IN CORNER 3 HELP, GAAAA, AHH, WE'RE ALL DIEING"? I generally do almost no talking during our 40 man raids and very little during our 20 mans. If you go on a 5man with me though you will see I'm not a quiet guy most of the time. Good communication has got to be there though and being flexible is key. In raids with Ark and Crebis leading I've seen adds come in and a tank just peeling off and picking it up without the RL saying anything - so I agree that its the raiders responsibility to do some "on the fly" manuvering.

I do think that most of the PVE encounters can be dealt with as long as you have a good strategy and everyone listens to the RL and does their designated job. Sure weird crap will happen and you're example of the welps the other night is a good example. But I also think that if people stand where they are suppose to and do the things they are suppose to most of those weird things don't happen - and that has little to do with in-fight communication and more to do with just paying attention. And as far as new fights go, we're gonna try them and we're gonna die the first few times. I think we do need to be more malleable on them than on a fight we know. Good effective communication, via comms, raid chat, or class channels is probably the key to learning what the hell is happening when the fight is too complicated for one person to watch everything thats happening. Comms is the quickest way to get info to the people that need it.

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Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.

Amrod

I have to say, I agree with the apparently unpopular notion that clear coms produce solid results. How could hearing and clearly understanding raid and pulling directions, followed by a healing leader calling heals and a tank announcing aggro issues be anything but successful?

To echo recent comments, I'm all for playful banter and witty repartee at the right time - the right time being before and after the raid, during buffs, or hell, even during trash pulls, since we seem to have them down pretty well. But if we are midway through a Razorgore mind-control and I hear someone going on at obnoxious volume about Blizzard's hardware/lag issues or what they think of their aunt's cooking, I'm just gonna snap. Save it for cocktail hour.

Being quiet on TS if you are not critical to the tactical maneuver being executed may be a drag, but it's a hell of a lot more fun than a wipe and a 10g repair bill.

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"What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, you cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images, where the sun beats, and the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, and the dry stone no sound of water." --T.S. Eliot

doofeey

VERY WELL PUT RAMROD!

Now explain to the warriors what "repartee" means.

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Lead, Follow or get out of my way

Amrod

I guess it's like, uh.... talking? But better.

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"What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, you cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images, where the sun beats, and the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, and the dry stone no sound of water." --T.S. Eliot

doofeey

and in the case of warriors that have not graduated to actual words...

It's like, uh... grunts and clicks.. many of them in a string.. but better.
(maybe a well placed scratch or two thrown in)

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Halten

Rawr doof! Don't make me sic that german kid on you! I'll tell him you run a UT server :P.

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Muirc

I'd have to agree with moderated comms. Open comms leads to too much confusion and too many people talking for the wrong reason. I'm sorry but this was evident while I was pulling one night in MC. If the person doing the pulling can't understand the RL's instructions then it's a recipe for a wipe. Also, with new and badder instances (BWL, AQ40 and Naxx) we need to cut the chatter and focus on the task at hand.

I understand it is nice to have everyone on comms just in case some unwanted aggro is picked up or something unexpected happens but I believe that everyone who expects to go to these instances(BWL, AQ40 and Naxx) to know their class and how to utilize/handle their class to it's full extent and if you need to tell someone to pull aggro off a priest cuz they are needed then that person shouldn't be in that instance because that person is not ready. IMHO.

And please be honest with yourself and the guild when signing up for these instances. Please also understand that the first several attempts (10, 20, 30...etc.) in a new instance is to learn. The killing of bosses will come in time but we need patience and focus.

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"Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."