View Poll Results: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
- Voters
- 40. You may not vote on this poll
-
Equal loot for all. Mains get signup pref for normal runs, Alts have signup pref on alt nights.
16 40.00% -
Mains get preference for loot and signups on normal raids, and Alts on Alt Nights.
24 60.00%
+ Reply to Thread
Results 16 to 30 of 40
Discussion: World of Warcraft / World of Warcraft - General Discussion - Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups - Here is my stand on the alt thing, and I seem to be the officer
-
08-07-2006, 10:02 AM #16
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
- Posts
- 215
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Here is my stand on the alt thing, and I seem to be the officer pushing this the most. I am all for Main pref. in raid signup, and all alts in the queue, but equal loot for all.. Here is why: If the main slots were not filled by mains, then we need the alts that are filling them, and they should be geared the same or they will be a detriment to the raid.
If alts do not get equal loot preference, then we will need more alt nights, and cooperation from the mains without alts. Alts get signup pref on these nights, mains queue, but if mains don't queue and the run doesn't happen because there aren't enough alts, then this system doesn't happen. We are doing ZG with them right now (though we could probably fill an ubrs/lbrs raid with mains only) because we need them to get better gear and we need to learn to have them work together better, since most of us haven't put as many hours in raids on them. Eventually they should hit MC.
Let's make alt night a regular thing, like one raid a week. We didn't down Hakkar last week, but we still had fun. Just remember, any rules made on alt night should also apply to mains, so if the raptor mount drops and "mains should be equal for that", then alts should be equal for that on main nights too.Anahlahna and Friends
-
08-07-2006, 10:31 AM #17
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
There's no reason for us not to just run more instances. Most weekday nights we can run multiple 20 mans. Having Alt raids brings everyone to more equal footing. I voted for the mains getting priority for loot/signups for MAIN runs and alts priority for loot/signups for ALT runs. I realize that there are a few exceptions where people are asked to bring an alt into a "big" raid, but for the most part we shouldn't need that anymore. And while alts are a very important part of the guild I can't see my alt warrior taking an item that one of our regular MC warriors needs whether its ZG or MC or whatever. They'll get more use out of it first of all and the raid will be better off if Beep or Kitty or Halten or Bear or Ugly or (insert name here if I missed you) have it. Plus anything that can help you tanks keeps my priest's squishy butt alive.
But here's a vote for more Alt night raids. I just have to get a few more levels on the warrior before I can join in the chaos.
EDIT: "Fun" stuff like mounts should probably be open rolls to all... not really an reason that a main should get priority for that
.
Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
08-07-2006, 11:34 AM #18
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Location
- Syracuse, NY
- Age
- 45
- Posts
- 546
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
As many have said, this is a complicated issue with no simple solution. The key is to get the best possible solution to positively affect as many of the issues as possible.
The TG/WoW reality is that we're committed to running MC/Ony/BLW with our mains. For many, alts are a necessity for nights when we are not raiding. There simply isn't much to do in WoW if you're wearing half of your Tier 1 gear. I believe that the officers need to carefully consider the input of all guild members and be aware the decision should reflect the position of the guild. I sincerely believe the decision has to be based on what's best for the long term viability of the guild. Let's not forget that there are some that are running ZG and AQ because they can't get into MC/Ony/BWL. I think a scenario that provides a "main" night and an "alt" night could lead to more complications especially if we dont' fill a roster with all mains or all alts. That combined with no dkp system is a recipe for disaster. I can't envision a scenario where people are going to want to spend money on repairs if they can't roll on loot.
Perhaps the simplest solution is this, treat ZG and AQ just like we treated every other instance on our way to 60 with a Need/Greed format. This way everyone has an equal shot and no one can say they were disadvantaged. DKP isn't an issue and if you get outrolled then you get outrolled. We're all doing the same amount of work therefore the loot should be an equal shot.
We're quickly moving into a scenario where we can run ZG in the same amount of time we used to run UBRS so why not treat it the same?Last edited by beep; 08-07-2006 at 11:51 AM.
“Waiting to be awakened by some unexpected thunderous roar, never dying...the sleeping giant lives and will sleep no more”. - John Seabrook
-
08-07-2006, 12:15 PM #19
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- Minneapolis, MN
- Posts
- 1,735
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Simple is usually better, especially when it works!
Bear's suggestion makes sense. Here's how it might work:
Make 20 man and below raids be subject to "open" signup (mains and alts have equal priority) with loot handled by need/greed...with a standing request for consideration, fairness and common sense. Alts can run with mains on an equal footing for loot in these raids (including any epics and/or unique mounts).
Make 40 man raids be main character-only for signup. Alts cannot occupy a signup spot and may only queue for these raids. An alt would be allowed a spot only at raid start up time and only if needed for class balance (request by RL) or to fill out a raid roster if there are not enough main characters. Obviously you'd have to choose at signup time whether to use your main (raid slot) or alt (raid queue).
Under this scenario, alts in a 40 man raid would be less frequent if not rare. Alts that did get into a 40 man raid would accrue their own DKP and will be subject to the 3 raid startup rule. They would also have equal loot rights with mains. Alts invited to the raid specifically to achieve class balance by the raid leader MAY designate their DKP for the person's main character.
At this stage of the game, we have had over 375 epic items subject to DKP in the guild, and this will continue at the rate of 20-25 per week. Our main characters need very little in terms of gear from ZG, UBRS or AQ20.Beep
Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)
-
08-07-2006, 01:06 PM #20
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- St. Louis, MO
- Age
- 39
- Posts
- 746
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Many main characters don't. But there are some that do. I'm all for being fair and whatever is decided is fine, but its not quite like UBRS. You're locked in for a few days - maximum you CAN do is about 2 (or each) per week and thats not-withstanding other raids etc. AND you need 19 others to do it. Most of the loot in ZG and some in AQ wouldn't be an upgrade for most mains... esp. those running MC. So in that case alts would get it anyway if they were on the run. But class books? The idol for the ZG enchant? The epic drops for the AQ armor? These are upgrades that alot of mains need and are hard to come by.
I can completely understand that going on an alt with the main raid and not getting to roll on all the loot has got to be frustrating. But if you're going with 19 mains then there's a good chance that they arent gonna need much out of there anyway. For example: I will keep running ZG - I will keep running all the way through Hakkar - but there is 1 thing, only 1 thing that I want out of there and thats that stupid enchant piece from the Bloodlord. So that means the healer ring set, the dagger from the snake boss, the robe from the spider, and any other loot I'm passing on. So any alts that come will have at least 1 fewer healer to roll against. But running there over and over just to watch various peoples 2nd or 3rd toons get the few things that mains actually need is also frustrating.
EDIT: Like I said at the top, whatever is decided is fine. I'm sure all of us can live with whichever policy is adopted.
. Its encouraging to be able to discuss these types of issues without everyone getting all bent out of shape. Mature gamers FTW!
Last edited by Pistos; 08-07-2006 at 01:24 PM.
Gigan - Shaman (Resto)
Pistos - Semi-retired Shadowpriest
...and other distractions of various levels.
-
08-08-2006, 09:22 PM #21
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
- Posts
- 215
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Let's get this hammered out, taking into account some suggestions made here so we can schedule some alt nights and know where everybody stands.
Anahlahna and Friends
-
08-09-2006, 05:19 AM #22
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- California
- Posts
- 2,211
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
You also have to consider this: Eventually we will hit a point where running MC with our mains becomes...superfluous. If you have no more need to run MC because you have all the loot you could possibly carry out of there then people are going to want to start running with alts simply because it will breath a little life into the DKP system, renew our desire to raid MC for phat lewt, and make those repair bills (as small as they will be then) worth the effort to pay them.
At that point our mains will be running BWL for loot so that means our alts will be gearing for the time when our mains start to fall from those raids to do AQ40 and have to step up to BWL. Then again to step up to AQ40 as our mains retire from that instance to do Naxx. Rince and repeat.
Honestly a raid could be made of nothing but healers and tanks and succeed in MC. It'd take a heck of a lot longer, but it is possible. Taking a fully tier 1 armor and epic weapon geared hunter or rogue into MC is just asking for them to cough up the repair bill and inflate their DKP. Something we don't need if we also expect new blood to start out with us along the way.My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.
Light, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they ticked me off.
-
08-09-2006, 01:00 PM #23
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Denver, CO
- Age
- 30
- Posts
- 24
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
I know I'm new to the guild, but I'm not at all new to the debate happening here.
I agree with Beep and what he has listed for what he would like to see, espeically if an alt was requested to fill certain class needs.
BEEP: There is going to come a point where TG is going to have all their mains well geared and will be running things to just run them. At that point, I've seen many many a guild open up their raids to not only all their alts all the time, but also friends of the guild. Eventually TG will find a time that it's looking at melting more than it cares to see melted on a run. And imo, I don't see that too far off for all of you. The number of times you guys are running these instances is quite often and that's only going to speed up the process of getting the "mains" geared up.______________________
"Go suck an elf!" "Makin' Paws Look Hawt!"
-
08-09-2006, 05:34 PM #24
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Location
- Utah
- Age
- 40
- Posts
- 759
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
I have skimmed most of this and agree with many points so here is my 2 cents...
I like the first option. I like not having alts cause mains to not get in on a raid. However Once the raid has started and alts are in then all treatment thereafter should be the same. If a main is late and an alt gets his spot tough luck.(unless prior arangments have been made) Let the DKP manage the Loot That's what it is there for. Main or Alt does not matter with DKP. Alt's are all ready less likely to get items via DKP as they are less likely to be included as often on DKP runs as main's are.
Also Alt nights are a great idea"they're more like guidelines, than actual rules,"....Captain Barbossa - Pirates of the Caribbean
-
08-11-2006, 11:06 AM #25
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
- Location
- Huntsville, AL
- Posts
- 439
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
This is an issue that I have been thinking about lately. The same people (mages) sign up for every MC raid like there is a secret society in place telling certain people that the raid has been put on the website. So Altor rarely get's into the raid. So I play my alt Gundola mostly. Since I do this, Gundola has all the rep in CC and I don't want to bring Altor to anything in the AQ20/40 raids. So, if we make a rule that say's alt's are worthless (which is basically what we are deciding). Then I would have to move Gundola to another guild. But since Altor doesn't get into the MC raids that often, he would need to move too. That is what I have been thinking about now for a few weeks.
-
08-11-2006, 04:36 PM #26
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
- Posts
- 215
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Altor, please queue your mage if you would like to take your mage to a raid. There are a couple mages who are ahead of the rest for raid attendance, and will be bumped down to the queue to let you in. It's easier to monitor this in the 40-man raids because the dkp site keeps track of how many runs each toon has had and when, but If you haven't been able to get somewhere you would like to be able to get, we can rotate you in. Not a problem. As far as moving an alt to another guild, many of us are awaiting the outcome and final decision on this issue to choose an appropriate action. I think if one suggestion is followed (mains get pref. all the time) many of my alts may find new homes. It's not my first choice, but since they cannot petition the bank, can't sign for raids, haven't seen many alt nights, and may not get pref. even on an alt night, that is a possibility. I hope we can come to an agreement here. For those of you who believe alts are worth nothing to the guild, check the MC tables and see how many we do use for our 40-man raids to achieve some sort of class balance. A couple weeks of alts refusing to group would also be felt hard.
Anahlahna and Friends
-
08-11-2006, 06:37 PM #27
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
- Astoria, NY
- Age
- 31
- Posts
- 183
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
In the meantime...
Let's get some alt-nights up there on the raid signup site!!!
"What are the roots that clutch, what branches grow out of this stony rubbish? Son of man, you cannot say, or guess, for you know only a heap of broken images, where the sun beats, and the dead tree gives no shelter, the cricket no relief, and the dry stone no sound of water." --T.S. Eliot
-
08-11-2006, 07:04 PM #28
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
- Location
- Amherst, WI
- Age
- 31
- Posts
- 315
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
I totally agree with Chair on this... Unless its my alt
Originally Posted by Chair
j/k loot dont mean much to me. I dont get to play enough to benefit from alt loot.
-
08-13-2006, 05:55 PM #29
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Posts
- 30
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Obviously your main toon should get the preference on practically everything. However I can see a time where an alt can come in handy when they are needed for class balance. Then that alt can have the same preferences as our mains...mainly becuase we have asked them to use their alt that best benifits us during the raid. And it comes down to if that person who is on the alt wants any of the loot or transfer their dkp to their main (can they still do that? I forget). In the end, if you are asked to use one of your alts, I say they have all the preferences as any ones main toon. But if they are on their alt just becuase they wanted to try something new or maybe are having more fun on this alt, then they should not get the preferences that our main toons have.
-
08-14-2006, 01:30 AM #30
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
- Location
- State of Georgia, U.S.A
- Age
- 42
- Posts
- 30
Re: Mains vs. Alts concerning Raid Sign-Ups
Correct me if I am wrong... this post was formed to Vote.. and clearly stated that it is not up to discussion.. just input in the form of a vote... it had already been discussed by the " Officers of the Guild" ... so Why does it seem the "Officers" are continuing the discussion here in the public forums??... if this is how things are done when someone doesnt agree then do away with officer chat in game and conduct all guild biz in guild chat... Sour grapes are best kept in the cellar and only brought out once they have become a very good wine (not whine).
Reply With QuoteThread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
Bookmarks