Wondering

shirokuma · 08-20-2006, 12:33 AM

I am sure that this has been talked to death and there is a thread about it, but I am just wondering. The nexus crystals and sulfuron ingots, they are going to the guild which is all well and good but I am just wondering is why the raid members don't recieve some form of DKP for these items. The reason being is once Rag drops his eye, the person that gets the eye will need the ingots and I assume that the ingots will go to them. As well if the nexus crystals are used to make equipment for people shouldn't the raid where these item dropped get some dkp?

For the nexus crystal I am not saying that people should get dkp equivalent to the item but even .25 dkp would be better than nothing.

Just my idea
Shirokuma

**Tonk** · 08-20-2006, 12:45 AM

we use a 0 sum dkp system.. which means that any dkp given out is taken from somewhere... always a source... always a target... so.. tell me where we might take the dkp from???

.25 * 40 still = 10 dkp... we cant take it from anywhere

**orion808** · 08-20-2006, 02:48 AM

I think what he means is maybe like this

Ingot drops in Raid A, Raid B, and Raid C.
In Raid D, Eye drops and someone gets it based on current dkp. When we hand all ingot to that person (if that is the plan), then we give out retro-DKP.
So the Ingots are given a point value and aren't actually bought until we find the person that need them. If I had the eye, I'd spend 50-100 DKP for the Ingots. That DKP would then be given back to the people where the item dropped.

Vin, I know this makes more work, but is it feasible. We were talking about something like this in officer chat tonight...different take, same kind of need.

**Gambit7** · 08-20-2006, 11:06 AM

My feeling is that we certainly cant get into DKP-bidding wars for mats; im sure it's still planned that mats go to the person with most NEED rather then raid-greed DKP.
Earning DKP on these items is already a moot point since the DKP is relative so I still say why even complicate it?

The ONLY reason to put DKP on these items is to compel people to farm where they otherwise wouldnt, which to me is kinda sad. Personally when I see a crystal come from a DE I'm really not all that disappointed that I missed the DKP. I'm disappointed someone didnt get gear.

Just because there's DKP on the eye, doesnt meant that dkp should play a roll on the ingots. I could say relatively the same thing for an FR leggin that needs mats for an Arcanum. How do u prioritize these things?

Lastly, and this is somewhat abstract, but realistically loot loses its value over time to a player. If I had the eye I shouldnt have to hold it for months at a time generating DKP and not spending it for other gear, just to get the mats for the eye. By THAT time I may have something better or just not really be that enthused about it. To me, it's much better to simply keep it NEED based, where the 1st person to get the eye gets the mats - period.
Adding another DKP opponent kinda sux. Yah, I know people want DKP.... but guess what - THOSE people dont usually have a need for the mats. I guarantee people will lose interest in such a scheme once they have to BID on ingots and crystals. Hell, how much DKP is an item as a WHOLE worth?? Who decides this?

Muirc · 08-20-2006, 01:14 PM

Ok, I have one example based on class for this. As for the hunter class there are items for our epic bow quest that drop from domo and from ony that we need as mats to do the quests. So if what you are saying is true Siulung then we shouldn't have been charged for those items as they are "mats" for the bow and why should we spend DKP on it, right? No, I think this is about being fair. If you are charging certain classes for acquiring items to get a weapon quest then it should stand the same for all classes. I'm not saying don't charge the hunters but I do think that the ingots should be retroactively credited. I know it's a lot more work but is necessary to be fair for everyone. Just my two cents.

**Tonk** · 08-20-2006, 04:42 PM

i agree with muirc... the DKP for the other parts of the [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros] is redonkulous already.. and to add... 10-20-30-40 dkp PER ingot... would make it un-attractive.... 200dkp for a weapon

**TG_Bear** · 08-20-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chair

i agree with muirc... the DKP for the other parts of the [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros] is redonkulous already.. and to add... 10-20-30-40 dkp PER ingot... would make it un-attractive.... 200dkp for a weapon

I would pay 200dkp for Sulfuras but only if it become a 1h'er! :P

**beep** · 08-20-2006, 05:30 PM

Seems to me that we need to make some decisions about [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros] BEFORE it drops...including who gets to bid on it, what it and the other mats will cost...etc. Our loot preference indicates this item to DPS warriors, then Pallys and Tanks.

I'd say the same about [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] Loot preference here goes to Tanks, then Pallys-Rogues-DPS Warriors, then Hunters.

Both items will require guild commitment for materials, quest help, etc. for even the first step to make any sense.

So...this discussion is good...and needs some resolution before we're standing around saying greedy things to one another.

08-20-2006, 12:33 AM	#1 (permalink)
shirokuma Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 155	Wondering I am sure that this has been talked to death and there is a thread about it, but I am just wondering. The nexus crystals and sulfuron ingots, they are going to the guild which is all well and good but I am just wondering is why the raid members don't recieve some form of DKP for these items. The reason being is once Rag drops his eye, the person that gets the eye will need the ingots and I assume that the ingots will go to them. As well if the nexus crystals are used to make equipment for people shouldn't the raid where these item dropped get some dkp? For the nexus crystal I am not saying that people should get dkp equivalent to the item but even .25 dkp would be better than nothing. Just my idea Shirokuma

08-20-2006, 12:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Tonk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Luck, WI USA Age: 22 Posts: 2,898	Re: Wondering we use a 0 sum dkp system.. which means that any dkp given out is taken from somewhere... always a source... always a target... so.. tell me where we might take the dkp from??? .25 * 40 still = 10 dkp... we cant take it from anywhere __________________ [url="http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=46832&altf=Upbtuz&altl=\|UH-QDT\|"im running for president[/URL] -Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in an attractive and well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a beer in the other, body totally worn out screaming "YEEEHAW, WHAT A RIDE!!!" - my grandpa -My New Rig: cpu: AMD 6400+ 3.2ghz dual core mobo: Asus Crosshair ram: 8gb (4x2gb) geil exotera 4-4-4-12 video card MSI 8800GTS 512mb (g92) Vista:x64 Laptop: Dell i9300 2.16ghz-2gb ram-6800-17" 1920x1200 -Toasty/Tonk/Chair http://tgtonk.notlong.com

08-20-2006, 02:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
orion808 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florida, US Age: 28 Posts: 2,301	Re: Wondering I think what he means is maybe like this Ingot drops in Raid A, Raid B, and Raid C. In Raid D, Eye drops and someone gets it based on current dkp. When we hand all ingot to that person (if that is the plan), then we give out retro-DKP. So the Ingots are given a point value and aren't actually bought until we find the person that need them. If I had the eye, I'd spend 50-100 DKP for the Ingots. That DKP would then be given back to the people where the item dropped. Vin, I know this makes more work, but is it feasible. We were talking about something like this in officer chat tonight...different take, same kind of need. __________________

08-20-2006, 11:06 AM	#4 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 32 Posts: 2,170	Re: Wondering My feeling is that we certainly cant get into DKP-bidding wars for mats; im sure it's still planned that mats go to the person with most NEED rather then raid-greed DKP. Earning DKP on these items is already a moot point since the DKP is relative so I still say why even complicate it? The ONLY reason to put DKP on these items is to compel people to farm where they otherwise wouldnt, which to me is kinda sad. Personally when I see a crystal come from a DE I'm really not all that disappointed that I missed the DKP. I'm disappointed someone didnt get gear. Just because there's DKP on the eye, doesnt meant that dkp should play a roll on the ingots. I could say relatively the same thing for an FR leggin that needs mats for an Arcanum. How do u prioritize these things? Lastly, and this is somewhat abstract, but realistically loot loses its value over time to a player. If I had the eye I shouldnt have to hold it for months at a time generating DKP and not spending it for other gear, just to get the mats for the eye. By THAT time I may have something better or just not really be that enthused about it. To me, it's much better to simply keep it NEED based, where the 1st person to get the eye gets the mats - period. Adding another DKP opponent kinda sux. Yah, I know people want DKP.... but guess what - THOSE people dont usually have a need for the mats. I guarantee people will lose interest in such a scheme once they have to BID on ingots and crystals. Hell, how much DKP is an item as a WHOLE worth?? Who decides this? __________________

08-20-2006, 01:14 PM	#5 (permalink)
Muirc Join Date: May 2006 Location: Long Beach, CA Posts: 361	Re: Wondering Ok, I have one example based on class for this. As for the hunter class there are items for our epic bow quest that drop from domo and from ony that we need as mats to do the quests. So if what you are saying is true Siulung then we shouldn't have been charged for those items as they are "mats" for the bow and why should we spend DKP on it, right? No, I think this is about being fair. If you are charging certain classes for acquiring items to get a weapon quest then it should stand the same for all classes. I'm not saying don't charge the hunters but I do think that the ingots should be retroactively credited. I know it's a lot more work but is necessary to be fair for everyone. Just my two cents. __________________ "Remember that all things are only opinions and that it is in your power to think as you please."

08-20-2006, 04:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
Tonk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Luck, WI USA Age: 22 Posts: 2,898	Re: Wondering i agree with muirc... the DKP for the other parts of the [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros] is redonkulous already.. and to add... 10-20-30-40 dkp PER ingot... would make it un-attractive.... 200dkp for a weapon __________________ [url="http://www.tsgnet.com/pres.php?id=46832&altf=Upbtuz&altl=\|UH-QDT\|"im running for president[/URL] -Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in an attractive and well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a beer in the other, body totally worn out screaming "YEEEHAW, WHAT A RIDE!!!" - my grandpa -My New Rig: cpu: AMD 6400+ 3.2ghz dual core mobo: Asus Crosshair ram: 8gb (4x2gb) geil exotera 4-4-4-12 video card MSI 8800GTS 512mb (g92) Vista:x64 Laptop: Dell i9300 2.16ghz-2gb ram-6800-17" 1920x1200 -Toasty/Tonk/Chair http://tgtonk.notlong.com

08-20-2006, 05:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
beep Join Date: May 2003 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,415	Re: Wondering Seems to me that we need to make some decisions about [Sulfuras, Hand of Ragnaros] BEFORE it drops...including who gets to bid on it, what it and the other mats will cost...etc. Our loot preference indicates this item to DPS warriors, then Pallys and Tanks. I'd say the same about [Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] Loot preference here goes to Tanks, then Pallys-Rogues-DPS Warriors, then Hunters. Both items will require guild commitment for materials, quest help, etc. for even the first step to make any sense. So...this discussion is good...and needs some resolution before we're standing around saying greedy things to one another. __________________ Beep Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

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