ccapoldo

Guys, I think we've lost the meaning of the original post.

Karma, you are on the right track. These forums are a great place to start looking for guild help. I've noticed that weekend days seem to be a great time to find folks working on alts ( I know I do!). Chances are very good that if you suggest say a BFD run on Saturday at 11 am server time and are looking for help, you'll get a response. You may still need to grab a random player or two, but that's okay.

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Sharabeth Level 80 Warrior
Zelanna Level 70 Mage
Anaris Level 70 Priest

Arkamis

Mateo, if you've never seen an officer train a newbie, you've never sat in Pally chat (but then again, since you're not a pally you wouldn't be expecte to.)

Second, doing explary work when situations go south is what makes a raid a raid. If the main tank dies for some reason, it falls on the other warriors to pick it up.

I know of no effective way to train for this situation. The only way to train is by experience. I can tell you "taunt, sunder, revenge" but that only goes so far, especially as someone who has never leveled a warrior past 9.

sturmn

As far as this guild being a "casual end game guild" and that being where most of the members are focused if we are going to invite lowbies into the guild; which i am all for, don't you think we should take a little responsibility in getting them ready for end-game. If the lowbies are expected to pug their way through the lower instances its basically like saying, "Yeah come join us but you will pretty much be on your own until you are geared and experienced enough that we need you." Now i know thats not the way anyone thinks but i wanted to go to the extreme because eventually thats where it could end up and that is not what a guild is. When someone is invited into the guild they become a part of us and the more time we put into developing them the more loyal they will be to the guild and the more they will WANT to get to endgame with us, Thus probably making them more willing to take that chance on a pug. Now Teranth i know you think this may be aimed at one of your earlier posts but its not, I agree with you that the lower lvls need to take more initiative in finding groups to pug through the lower instances i just dont think they should be made to feel like that is their only outlet.

hionmorphine

Hey Karma,

I am a lvl 44 Rogue that was accepted into the guild and fully understood that most of the peeps raided end-game. There are others that have alts and some new recruits such as Elensara, Mildread (well not actually new...lol), and myself that are more than happy to do some low level instances. I am usually on in the evening almost everyday, given the wife's schedule..hehe. Anywho I would be glad to do any instances that you had in mind (of course lvl dictates).

We should get the lowbies to post there schedule on a sticky so we can create a program to conduct raids such as the end-game raid invite program. What do you say? Think one of you officers or organizers could post a sticky to help us out?

Sweet...

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Tinka

Karma, I would be more than happy to take you thru whatever you need help with. I play almost every wednesday night thru sunday afternoon (I have to be at work by 6:00 sunday night so I stop playing around 4:30 other than that I'm always willing to help. give me a shout. That goes for the rest of you too.

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I just wanted you to know I have entered the SnapDragon phase of my life...Part of me has Snapped...and the rest of me is Draggin!!!!

Never meddle in the affairs of Dragons. For you are crunchy and taste great with Katsup!

Karma

I'm out again.

I decided to post it in this thread because it seemed the most relevant place to put it.

I came back to WoW a few weeks ago because I wanted to find a fun game to entertain me, and I remembered having some fun playing with the TG folks a while ago.

Well, it took one day for me to find that it was hard to find lower level people to play with so I posted this thread here, and was met with a lot of varying responses. Mateo's most closely summarizes what I found to be the case.

I played WoW as part of TG (this time around) for a week and only once did I play with a TG member. Thanks for the fun instance run Agamemnon. I also chatted quite a bit with sweet bippy. A few people were kind enough to send me stuff like leather, etc. But what was sorely lacking was people to play with.

Rather than having people to actually play with, I found that the guild was solely interested in raiding end-game, looking for gear for level 60 people. Maybe that's fun. I don't know. I guess I would have liked to have seen some teamplay that involved more aspects of the game.

It was disappointed to basically be on my own to grind up to level 60, at which point I could (perhaps) fill a particular role on an end-game raid.

I joined to play with people.

I didn't get to play with people.

So I'm out.

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Karma

luna

What happened to Arakron and Bippy and all of that crew that I made sure to introduce you to? They seemed rather excited to have you to level with..

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Resurgent's New Motivational Motto:
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beep

Karma,

While it bothers me that two of Tactical Gamer's old hands (first Mateo and now you) have tried WoW and found it lacking the game experience they sought, I think I understand a bit how that could happen. The differences in game experiences are pretty dramatic.

Most TG games are played with "TG people", with a shortish learning curve. By that, I mean you can learn to play your "toon" well in BF2 in a whole lot less than the 300 or so hours that it takes to level to 60 in WoW.

The equipment lists are short, short, short in comparison...with no +stat attributes to worry over.

I'm sorry you didn't find it more to your liking. Heck, I'm also sorry I don't find BF2 more interesting and engaging.

WoW's demands for playing time and style are huge...and many find the payback for that investment to be too little...or they are looking for a team experience of the sort they know from other TG games. So be it.

Back to the beginning...I'm sorry it didn't work for you. It DOES work for many of us. I hope your experience doesn't lead you to propagate a "bad" evaluation of WoW. I don't do so for the many other TG gaming areas that bore me to tears. Such differences are a statement about us, not about the games themselves.

'nuff said.

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Beep


Those people who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - (Isaac Asimov)

Karma

Like I said, bippy was extremely nice and friendly to chat with. The problem is that what I find rewarding in these games is playing with a familiar group of people; learning their styles and learning to work together. There were plenty of people who were willing to come out and take me through instances, but no one to actually play with.

As for prapagating bad evaluations, I just don't do that sort of thing. I've tried WoW 4 times, and played a ton of hours. My game experience in WoW is likely quite different than other people's... Some of you know me from my hard-core GR days here at TG, and at it's predecessor, Network 42. In all that time I was completely into team play.

What I'd hoped for from WoW this time around was some fun gameplay with people who enjoyed playing in the WoW world. I have never played the end-game stuff so I will assume that its a different experience to run those raids numerous times than it is to run pre-endgame instances numerous times.

But all of that misses the point: without people to play with it's just not interesting to me. I came back to the game on Sept 15. The first time I teamed with a TG'er was 5 days later. Then I teamed with the same person again 2 days later. I never saw another person in my level range again. After a few days, I started logging in, seeing that no one was playing anything below 40, running around till I died, then logging out.

I cancelled my account 10 days after reactivating it, and haven't logged back in since.

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Karma

Vinzalf

This is partially a flaw in WoW, partially a flaw in the guild members.

I will admit I don't really like creating new characters. I was very, very fortunate when I returned to WoW in that there was a small group of people, in the guild, who I could level with, so I diddn't have this sort of issue. and on top of that, class balance amongst us wasn't bad at all either.

As it stands right now, I would be more likely to tell someone that to get to the good stuff, perhaps being unaffiliated with a 'more endgame than casual' guild would be... less straining on people's expectations?

I very often wonder whether or not World of Warcraft "Fits" the Tactical Gamer community. I always end up with the same answer: "Yes, but no, but yes, but no"

May sound confusing, but if you think about it, it's pretty much true, at least from a long time Tactical Gamer member such as myself's standpoint.

The 'fun' when I joined the WoW guild was in the 55-60 dungeons with some of the elder guild members. The 'fun' now has changed to more of the endgame raid instances. This means it's even more of a struggle to achieve that point from where a player begins.

It was still a struggle for me when my bud's weren't on and I wanted to work on some quests. It generally did not occur. But after I made the graduation to level 60, things took a change for the better in my eyes. Sad but true.

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RAWGRLRLRLRRLGLRL!!!

Nations are like individuals: they achieve more when they plan to plant a tiny tree, and do it, than when they propose to raise an entire forest and then fall asleep in the furrows.

I AM socializing artard, I'm logged on to an MMORPG with people from all over the world and getting XP with my party using Teamspeak

junebug388

This is a really great guild with interesting diverse people playing what I think is the best game in the history of gaming—it has something for everyone. I came here 3 months ago at the disbanding of my guild. I felt welcome when I visited raiding and knew a handful of other members.
I found the forums helpful in strategy and it was instrumental in decisions I made to modify eqip and slight change in talent points. After I arrived, there was concern voiced here regarding members signing for raids that were minimally geared and although I carry only blues, a few lucky purples (x ward of elements), I delayed signing up again for raids while I improved significantly fire resistance via AH and quests. I did not expect members to hold my hand for this and my friends list is extensive.

A diverse experience of guild, PUG and outside friends—wish WOW would expand the number of friends you can carry I think is best. That also means guild members, however, are out there playing with other guilds and being offered invites
I read this thread yesterday and couldn’t help but think a new person would interpret some guild members comments as though it is your responsibility to end level and when you are finished come help the core guild members get some phat loot. That would be sad because I don't think any guild member would mean that at all.

It is healthy and in the guilds best interest to cultivate, train and nurture characters you would like to see raiding with you in the future.

Luna particularly has made me feel welcome here and when I have a question about a place I haven’t been, she has been helpful in advice so that I don’t get everyone killed

I haven’t posted before and rarely talk in chat as I do feel still a bit of a visitor. Then last night after reading this thread, I had watched South Park which really was a riot. I logged on and giggle with folks and joked around only to be told that if I wanted to talk I could get a different channel. First of all, personally when I am focused in a raid, etc. I often turn off guild chat, or even ignore a player---I figure that is my responsibility not theirs.
My feelings were really hurt by that. I am not usually so fragile and I appreciate the whispers from people who were very nice afterward.

I do think that it would be easy for some players here to feel isolated partly because they are playing outside the guild a lot. I guess what I would wish for is that people here would have a bit more fun just playing with each other.

Junebugg

Ashenhart

I have been stewing on this for a few days and will throw in an observation.

I have a real life friend that just started playing the game and I have been taking my time to concentrate and helping this character level up. She is a level 36 rogue and we have been PUGing or being run through an instance with one of my kids high level chars. We have been having alot of fun with it and recently she had been asking me what it is like to be in a large guild like TG and that she wanted to be in a guild. I was kinda leary about it at first but felt it wouldnt really do any harm if she joined. She really doesnt have any aspiration to RAID on any level and just wants the interaction of a community. I asked for her to get an invite to TG and she was refused. Since we are not accepting any classes into TG. I was at first kinda stunned by this. I have never been denied to have a RL friend added to the roster. Chestylove, Jedidia and Tinka all got in and nothing was ever even considered. So it got me to thinking back to many of the conversations that I have seen progress over the past few months.. some from Mateo and others.. and even dwelved into the many "alts" posts. The more I read and the more I thought about it. There is no room in this guild for up and coming chars. This is an "END GAME GUILD" period and end of story. We have many alts that many of the members will play together but there is no room for growth. We have become a guild of around 50 gamers that raid together and there is no room for more. My alts have no hope of ever seeing endgame content. My hunter that I paid for.. to come from Silverhand.. has no use here at all. I removed my druid from TG and will help my friend find a guild that they can find some social community to join. I was saddened by this since I truly call many of you my friends and I wanted my RL friend to see what wonderful people I have found in this digital community. I will always keep Ash in this guild for as long as you will have her.. I havent been raiding as much with her since football season is still in full swing and RL beckons but as soon as it is over you can expect to see her in full force but I will probably be dropping my alts from TG one by one as I play them.

I am posting this not to start a flame war but hopefully to start some reflection. Is this what TGWoW expected to become? Is this the direction that TGWoW wanted?

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Tarenth

Sorry about that June. I really am. Its just that everyone was VERY excited about the WoW South Park episode. Those of us who stepped up to venture into AQ20 were effectively tied down and had to record it and watch it later. It was getting a little out of hand and tempers were getting frayed over raid and guild chat as people insisted on talking about it to the dismay of those who wished to experience it first hand. I assure you that only in the most extreme cases will that ever happen in guild chat.

And Ashen? VERY sorry about your friend being given the cold shoulder. I didn't think we did that since 'invites for friends' is one of those nice loopholes we have in the invitation system so that we can build upon our camaraderie. Talk with Luna and she'll be able to give you a better answer instead of 'no we're full'. Maybe it just wasn't made clear why she was joining and that you were sponsoring her.


I should probably note something here that will remind me very much like a broken record since Ashenhart mentioned it as well:

As we progress deeper into the nebulous 'end game' of WoW, those instances which we originally though we'd need to 'focus on' will fall further back from importance. As an example the difference between AQ40, BWL, MC, and Onyxia for us right now. AQ40 is a goal some wish to achieve but are not there yet. BWL is the current big 'main focus' of the guild. MC is starting to become old news, as people complete their sets and as it becomes more routine the importance of getting 'the best of the best forward' fades. Onyxia is already old news since those who have their shiney T2 helms have little else to gain from killing her other than DKP. As such if you REALLY want to run with your alts you should consider talking to the class leader of your alt and opening a disscussion with them. If you can prove you aren't holding back the development of your main (who we will need in our 'main focus' which is now BWL) or that you just need a change of pace, then they just may let you run a few times with your alt until you get your pacing back or just run with your alt in those instances you don't need anymore instead.

NOTHING is insurmountable if you are willing to talk it though.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Ashenhart

I will note here that Luna was involved with this conversation. Thats why I am saying that TG needs to reflect on their practices. Is this the direction of things to come... and we have talked the alts thing to death and I totally understand why we dont have alts at this time. This isnt just a sticky subject for us.. its a sticky subject for all end game guilds.. I think Divinus or Oath.. I dont remember which has "just" started running alt MC runs and have opened it up to the TH community. We still arent at a place yet that would allow us to do this.. and understandably..

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Bisclaveret

This is partly the reason why I hardly play WoW anymore. My character has no chance of seeing endgame at any time without an extreme influence of time and attention. Heck, i'm only level 24 and i've been playing since January, allowing for about 2 months of leave to try other things. I joined the guild at perhaps level 5, because I had heard there was needs of priests and I had never done one, so I created my second main character and have been playing him ever since (my first was located on a server where my friends whom I had been playing with dropped out, and then turned into a 2 hour waitfest to log in) and the problems I was having before I joined the guild, RE having noone to play with, even irregularly, who seemed to know what they were doing or cared for thier other partymembers is the same thing i've been seeing since I started.

I'm a very team oriented player, and more of a casual gamer, so I know next to nothing about maps, where things are, what equipment I really need (i'm still using cookie's stirring rod and tenderizer, for example, because I haven't earned enough money to buy anything better from the AH). I hate grinding, because in general I die anytime I try to explore anywhere without a party member to back me up and when I'm fighting more than 1 monster at a time, as well as because thats not really what I wanted to do.. In terms of progress, well, I just reached Redridge mountains last month, because i can finally survive more than one encounter there.

I suppose my playing style, as far as other MMORPG's I've tried and for everyone who'se partied with me in DnD Online, is strictly support. I'm not the best out there, I don't "know my role" I suppose you could say, but in DDO if anyone needed a cleric in my guild I'd be up for it. Even if I didn't really want to do that quest, I valued the teamwork and companionship of being with someone else that I knew appreciated my time and effort. Noone needed a cleric? Then I'd post my LFG and get snapped up almost immediately. The same thing for my rogue/wizard mix (aiming for an Arcane Trickster prestige class equivalent) before the advent of the patches that brought the Knock spells. I once did Tangleroot so many times the game locked me out of *all* treasure chests in the instance, just because people needed it done and needed a rogue.

I dunno, I'm not leadership material so I'm not comfortable with starting my own groups (despite what people on BF2 Tacmod might say *blush*), looking for already formed ones and helping out in any way is what I aim for and why I joined TG WoW in the first place. But from the getgo it was "grind/PUG with other people for 30 levels and then we'l see if we'l include you in our parties. Oh, and heres a list of equipment you need" I always got, and since I work for a living all weekend and get off at a late time EST, hardly anyone is on who needs a low level character from what i've seen (and the few people on TG that were anywhere near my level were always unresponsive or didn't want me.) so I pretty much gave up on the game.

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